hello guys i just wanted to prove to my boy that it doesnt take f/i to reach 220 on the tib, can someone elaborate on the nessasary mods to be at 220 whp thanks guys also, all n/a thanks ......p.s. he has a modded 1998 altima , ....maybey thats why, .... thanks guys

220? I would direct your attention to Dingleweed..that SOB is gotta be pushing that N/A. Go to his Cardomian site and check the list of his mods and the ones that are sitting in his garage.

hello guys i just wanted to prove to my boy that it doesnt take f/i to reach 220 on the tib, can someone elaborate on the nessasary mods to be at 220 whp thanks guys also, all n/a thanks ......p.s. he has a modded 1998 altima , ....maybey thats why, .... thanks guys

Um....wtf are you trying to say? Something about a tib, and an altima, and 220 hp without forced induction?

Your looking at intake, headers, exhaust, intake manifold, bbtb, fuel tuner, cams, hot wires, and an underdrive pulley. That should at least put you above 200whp, close to 220whp I would imagine. Thats for a V6 anyways, you have a V6 I hope and expect to spend between $3000 - $4000.

Anything is possible, enough money can get you what you want. I will even say that one could get to 250hp or higher w/o boost, if they want to tear apart the motor, replace pistons, rods, crank, heads, bore, etc..

given that you would need all those mods to reach 220, it would make more economical sense to just boost 4 psi with I/E....I'd imagine that that would put you in the 215-230 range...

given that you would need all those mods to reach 220, it would make more economical sense to just boost 4 psi with I/E....I'd imagine that that would put you in the 215-230 range...

Economical yes, N/A no.

It's possible... just pay attention... NextGen might surprise us all.....

Economical yes, N/A no.

But when it's cheaper to go F/I, why not do it???

But when it's cheaper to go F/I, why not do it???

Becaust N/A is more impressive I think. I've seen completly N/A civics doing 7sec 1/4mile. Sure you can do that with F/I too, but I don't think its as impressive.

F/I is a little bit like cheating..... and then...there's N20...and let's not even get into that :D - 250 WHP N/A Coming Soon !

YEah, I think NA whp is more of an accomplishment than FI. I made the concious decision to not get FI just so I have the honor of saying all motor.

I guess I see that point of view. N/A is a much more impressive feat to accomplish, especially if u can match the F/I guys out there. But, from a poor boy's point of view, F/I can sometimes be more economical... ;)

Good luck if you decide to undertake the challenge, and keep us updated!!! Dingleweed has a 200whp N/A Tib...may wanna hit him up. He's pretty knowledgable from what I've seen on the board... :)

220 WHP N/A certainly isn't out of the question. The challenge would be to see who can get the farthest above 220 WHP, and still have a smooth daily driver.

I have 197 WHP N/A with:
CAI
BBTB
Stage III IM
mild cams
headers
catback
A/F tuner
light crank pulley

I am pretty sure I can reach 210 WHP by:
swapping my REAL ecu back in and dyno tuning the A/F mix
light-weight flywheel and rims/tires
(I'll probably throw in some capacitive spark plug wires, and grounding wires for good measure...)

The if you wanted to go for 220 WHP, there are a few choices:
1. go with more aggressive cams than I have. (That is what maddogg did and he reached 209 WHP with about the same mods but without ANY tuning. If he just tuned his A/F ratio, he could easily gain another 11 WHP)
2. worked over heads; i.e., ported and polished or flycut for slightly higher compression
3. Might even be able to get there with further tuning; i.e., ignition tuning with MSD-7 programmable or some type of piggy-back, and adjustable cam gears and sprockets.


But, as Tibmeister said... NextGen might just be giving us all a very pleasant N/A surprise soon...

Just my $0.02 ;)

Becaust N/A is more impressive I think. I've seen completly N/A civics doing 7sec 1/4mile. Sure you can do that with F/I too, but I don't think its as impressive.


where have you seen this????

But, as Tibmeister said... NextGen might just be giving us all a very pleasant N/A surprise soon...

Couldn't have said it better myself..! :D

Becaust N/A is more impressive I think. I've seen completly N/A civics doing 7sec 1/4mile. Sure you can do that with F/I too, but I don't think its as impressive.

I thought the record for all motor was in the 9's. Can;t remember who just took that record, but it was like 9.99 or 9.98. something like that

With N/A cars your power is available right now, no spooling, no lag. N/A motors are more impressive, b/c it is about getting the most out of a combination of parts. IMO

F/I is a little bit like cheating..... and then...there's N20...and let's not even get into that :D - 250 WHP N/A Coming Soon !

do you like my avatar?

What is that green blobb holding the sign supposed to be?

Kinda reminds me of a badly drawn green storm trooper's helmet lol

-Scott

It looks like boba fett.

Oh man he totally dissed your Fett!

Ooo man sorry, didn't know that was supposed to be Fett! :-\

Now I feel like a heel....

-Scott

do you like my avatar?
Absolutely Love It!!

Ladies and Gentlemen!!! Nobody move!!! this thread has officially been hijacked!!!!

its the boba fett from the avatar list and the sign is from the woowoo avatar. i didn't mean to hijack, back to the topic at hand. Bottom line, your going to spend alot of money for alot of items that require alot of work to install. But look at Dingleweed, he's well on his way to be the fastest N/A Tib in OH and possibly the States.

Ladies and Gentlemen!!! Nobody move!!! this thread has officially been hijacked!!!!
damn thread ninjas!

I think once GUDE gets some dynos of their head work, we'll see MANY 200 whp v6's running around...NA

hehehe...my car is N/A(no ammo) and pushing....ummm..hrmm...just pushing(-_-).

one day...i'll have an N/A then super N/A..if there is a thing...lol

btw, i like my avatar better than fett

well, thanks for the info,....not only gude ya know but , teamsr has that turbo ready for down payment basically, ....i beleve estimated numbers were 220 227 tq and thats on a stock car without anyother mods. at 4 psi. I cant wait to see what the 2 other stages will be like. estimated turbo boot levels say higher than 16 psi, for later stages so, im guess tibs (deltas) will be pushing 300+ with those turbo stages , that would be the last and final mod than i could finally reach my goal to spank my boys stang GT

with dingleweeds number if he would allpy that turbo with some modifications to his n/a setup he would have a monster, (as if he doesnt have one beginning already) lol

I'll post my views of the question raised earlier about going NA or going FI.

First, let us just assume that either way you end up shelling out about $3000 to $4000 to get to the "neigborhood" of 200 WHP. (Lots of NA components or an Alpine SC, since those are the only purchasable options right now.)

Here are the topics to consider:

I. Dollar vs. Time

You can either "nickel and dime" your way up to 3 to 4 grand going the NA route at your own pace and within your financial bounds.

Or, you have to come up with that sum of money all at once if you go FI.

Nickel and diming can be adavantageous if you don't have that much cash at once. FI can be advantageous if you actually do have that much cash left over after buying the car, and want to "leap-frog" your way up to higher HP.

II. Knowledge

If you go the NA route, there exists a HUGE potential to learn A LOT about how your car works and how it is put together. If you do each and every mod yourself, you are even better off; in the respect of knowing what mod made what difference and why, and which bolt goes where. With this knowledge you have a better grasp of how to trouble-shoot your own engine if something actually does go wrong (or, you have a better grasp of what can actually make it better than it already is.)

If you go the FI route, you buy one performance upgrade (and usually pay for someone else to install it.) In the process you have learned absolutely nothing, first hand. The engine bay becomes a "black box" of sorts, that generates a lot of power and you don't really know "how". If something goes wrong, you end up taking it back to your dealer, or performance shop, and leave it up to them to fix it.. and pay out the whazoo... (but that is your choice if you have the money to do so... I admit, having money to let someone else worry about your problems is really nice sometimes.)

III. Upgradability

OK, this is essentially a toss-up. If you go the complete NA route, you have built an awesome machine that you can throw a SC on top (probably with some fuel system upgrades as well, since you will have outgrown the stock fuel injectors.) A well built and powerful NA motor will make seriously MAD power with a supercharger! You also lose none (if it is a centrifugal type of SC) of your NA mods, or minimal (if it is a roots type of SC) mods; i.e., upper IM, in the process.

If you go the FI route first, you can then "nickel and dime" your way with some traditional NA mods to get more power ( and will most likely run into fuel system limitations in the process as well.)

IV. Quiting Point

If you go the NA route, the chance does exhist that you might reach a point where "enough is enough, and Iove my car the way it is." Maybe you did have some crazy plans to have a 300 WHP tib, but along the way reached a point where you felt it was good enough. Maybe you are one of the lucky few that can say " Wow, it is pretty cool the way it is." I you chose the NA route there is the possibility that you might have reached this point before you spent $3000 to $4000. If you go the FI route, that is really not an option... well, maybe after you have spent that much then say, "it is really cool the way it is. I think I'll leave it alone."

For me, I set a goal a long time ago that I wanted to get to 200WHP. I have essentially arrived at that point. That doesn't neccessarily mean that I am done. I might still try to tweak out the best power I can with the components I already have. But for hardware purposes, I have reached my goal and I can be happy.

Either way, whether you choose the NA or the FI route, if you really want to get crazy you can add a manifold-plate style nitrous set up to either one (with some proper plug and ignition compromises) and get to some really crazy power levels.

In conclusion, there are a lot of things to consider of whether to go the NA or the FI route. Either way, you can't go wrong.


But, in my opinion, learning how a car works and getting your hands dirty is not only therapy, but incredibly educational. Building a foundation of knowledge of how your car works makes it that much easier to "leap-frog" up to the next level.

Here here dingleweed. hey if your on later hit me up and I can talk to you about that one thing.

someone erase all those inane posts
this thread is got good info

With N/A cars your power is available right now, no spooling, no lag. N/A motors are more impressive, b/c it is about getting the most out of a combination of parts. IMO

Actually, thats not really true, if you have a truly tricked out N/A Tib or Honda or anything for that matter, and are running long duration cams, the odds pare pretty good that you sacrificed a lot of low end tq, which in essence is just like Turbo Spool

Dingleweed, your my hero.. but no really your post had a lot of good ideas in it. I am also looking to hit the 200whp mark, it will take me two years to do it, me being a flight student and already have huge debts to pay off, but its my goal none the less and I definatly havn't reached my "quiting time" yet.

Hey all. Hoping somebody can shed a little light on this (Dingleweed?)

I remember reading somewhere (perhaps on NT.com) about some people feeling that the Tibby's V6 would probably be limited to about 220 or so HP, citing weak internals. Since cranks, pistons, rings are not readily available for our engine (at least that I know of), what to do?

What are your thoughts??

Thanks

Tony

MYTH!!! BUSTED!!!! nextgen is now running a 250hp s/c tib for a while now. shooting for 300. so...about engine blowing pass 200hp... not true

N2O used correctly on a modded and tuned car is untouchable for gains!

MYTH!!! BUSTED!!!! nextgen is now running a 250hp s/c tib for a while now. shooting for 300. so...about engine blowing pass 200hp... not true

NextGen is already running at 300 whp for months. I'm at his shop for the whole week with my car.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid101/p37a186c0427b9455d008f7028635db82/f9cf4149.jpg
My car being Dyno
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid101/p4acfe887cbc1191933dbffc2407ba04d/f9cf416a.jpg

Good to see Steve, what power are you making stock?

Hey all. Hoping somebody can shed a little light on this (Dingleweed?)

I remember reading somewhere (perhaps on NT.com) about some people feeling that the Tibby's V6 would probably be limited to about 220 or so HP, citing weak internals. Since cranks, pistons, rings are not readily available for our engine (at least that I know of), what to do?

What are your thoughts??

Thanks

Tony

i say that theory is crap i have been running at about 220whp for sometime now. i drive my car very hard and haven't had any problems. there are also a few guys at around the same whp as me, not to mention nextgen well over my whp. so i say that theory is blown right out of the water.

Words are nothing without proof to back them up. I applaud NextGen for his efforts but if your gonna tell people he has a 300WHP ride then post some proof. Also I have yet to see a true 250WHP dyno!! Last one I saw was 246WHP, NOT 250WHP... ::)

I was just wondering if any of you N/A guys have thought about the benefits of boring out the 2.7 to say...3.0? That, with the correct combination of internals to correspond with the larger bore, and this engine would definitely pick up some great N/A Hp. What are your views on this Dingleweed? Thanks.

OUT

where's the ebaums pic?

I was just wondering if any of you N/A guys have thought about the benefits of boring out the 2.7 to say...3.0? That, with the correct combination of internals to correspond with the larger bore, and this engine would definitely pick up some great N/A Hp. What are your views on this Dingleweed? Thanks.

OUT

That would certainly be something to consider for anyone that is going to do a complete engine rebuild. As I understand it, our engine has the same block as the 2.5 liter. So, it is already bored out a little bit. Whether or not 3 liters would be possible would be up to how much more material can be taken out of the block/sleeves without sacrificing strength. Maybe TC or phlash (I think he is the guy that did a complete tear down as well and discovered the 2.5 liter case and heads) would have a better idea. :-\

That would certainly be something to consider for anyone that is going to do a complete engine rebuild. As I understand it, our engine has the same block as the 2.5 liter. So, it is already bored out a little bit. Whether or not 3 liters would be possible would be up to how much more material can be taken out of the block/sleeves without sacrificing strength. Maybe TC or phlash (I think he is the guy that did a complete tear down as well and discovered the 2.5 liter case and heads) would have a better idea. :-\

WOW, I didn't know that our engine was originally a 2.5 liter! :-\ Well that definitely does make it a little more unlikely to do a bigger bore, but, like you said, it will ultimately depend on the amount of metal left on the cylinder walls. But I'm more than positive it can be done if someone were to try it though. Hell, I remember in the Mustang magazine "5.0" when they took a 4.6 liter V8 and bored it out to a 5.0!! :biggrin: So, if they can do that, I'm sure a 3.0 Tiburon isn't out of the picture (at least yet). I might have to drop T.C. a PM and see what his take on all this would be. I'm sure he , if anybody, would be able to get it done, or at least prove that it is or isn't possible. Thanks for the info Dingleweed.

OUT

proof of 300 hp? (i'm guessing here) but the reason i think nextgen hasn't posted "proof" of that is because he is still doing some r&d on it and making sure that it will hold or not. same thing with the 250hp kit he had. took a while b4 it came out after it was heard of. i know when he is satisfied with how reliable the 300 kit will be, then that's when he will release it.

3.0 could easily be done, But i wouldnt touch the bore, just the stroke. The Tib has a really small stroke, but cams that are made for a freaking SUV, I think to get the most gains out of the stock cams, a stroker kit would be perfect, redline at 6500, make 230 or so WHP with a lot of other tricked out bolt ons

Now, now, before you do something like that you had better bounce the idea off the well known Delta V6 expert "Red". You know what the "limitations" are of the V6...........230 WHP and it goes boom, fragmenting into molten pieces of aluminum. LOL FOTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!

I guess Nextgen proved that "expert" wrong in a big way. Glad he is no longer cruisin' this board.

There is nothing more satisfying than generating power the "n/a way"
No offense, but Superchargers, Turbos, & N2O are "shortcuts" to power :P
I know I speak many others, when I say I am definitely proud of what I have gottem out of the V6 ;) I remember barely being able to spin the tires... now I can't keep them from spinning !

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid102/p0e7d753db277868e3e1e3df2c1d66909/f9c8ffed.jpg
My engine this morning. :biggrin:

its so naked. Yay thats what I get to do in a couple months.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid102/p0e7d753db277868e3e1e3df2c1d66909/f9c8ffed.jpg
My engine this morning. :biggrin:

what are you installing? Cams?

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid102/p0e7d753db277868e3e1e3df2c1d66909/f9c8ffed.jpg
My engine this morning. :biggrin:

VERY COOL PIC!! So much better than mine
http://images.cardomain.com/member_images/9/web/309000-309999/309045_101_full.jpg

Can't wait to see what you get!

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid102/p154deac656a5c5970a327b981df8dd84/f9c8ffc6.jpg

car is running now! :biggrin:

There is nothing more satisfying than generating power the "n/a way"
No offense, but Superchargers, Turbos, & N2O are "shortcuts" to power :P
I know I speak many others, when I say I am definitely proud of what I have gottem out of the V6 ;) I remember barely being able to spin the tires... now I can't keep them from spinning !


I agree totally. Nothing against anyone with a S/C (I wouldn't mind one myself) but if you enjoy the tuning aspect, it's much more rewarding doing it N/A. With a S/C it just takes money and an available kit to bolt on 200-300 whp. N/A takes more parts, better part matching and a little massaging to get the most out of it.

To get that same feeling with FI I would need to compare my setup making like 250whp at 6psi compared to another guy needing 12 psi to make the same power. That would mean alot to me, but not to most people out there.