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post #1 of 35 Old 12-09-2005, 10:59 PM Thread Starter
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The Definitive Oil Explanation Thread

Some people find motor oil confusing, so here is a thread to help with that. I am focusing on Mobil 1 Synthetic, since that is my oil of choice. First listed will be the oil specifications, followed by helpful definitions, followed lastly by my recommendations.


Oil Specs
Mobil 1 5W-20
SAE Grade 5W-20
cSt @ 40 C: 48.3
cSt @ 100 C: 8.8
Viscosity Index, ASTM D 2270: 163
Pour Point, C, ASTM D 97: -47
Flash Point, C, ASTM D 92: 228


Mobil 1 5W-30
SAE Grade 5W-30
cSt @ 40 C: 64.8
cSt @ 100 C: 11.3
Viscosity Index, ASTM D 2270: 169
Pour Point, C, ASTM D 97: -54
Flash Point, C, ASTM D 92: 230


Mobil 1 10W-30
SAE Grade 10W-30
cSt @ 40 C: 62
cSt @ 100 C: 10.0
Viscosity Index, ASTM D 2270: 147
Pour Point, C, ASTM D 97: -45
Flash Point, C, ASTM D 92: 224


Mobil 1 0W-30
SAE Grade 0W-30
cSt @ 40C: 56
cSt @ 100C: 10.3
Viscosity Index, ASTM D 2270: 175
Pour Point, C, ASTM D 97: -54
Flash Point, C, ASTM D 92: 234


Mobil 1 0W-40
SAE Grade 0W-40
cSt @ 40 C: 80
cSt @ 100 C: 14.3
Viscosity Index, ASTM D 2270: 187
Pour Point, C, ASTM D 97: -54
Flash Point, C, ASTM D 92: 236



And some definitions to help you understand what is going on up there....

Viscosity index: The viscosity index, commonly designated VI, is an arbitrary numbering scale that indicates the changes in oil viscosity with changes in temperature. Viscosity index can be classified as follows: low VI - below 35; medium VI - 35 to 80; high VI - 80 to 110; very high VI - above 110. A high viscosity index indicates small oil viscosity changes with temperature. A low viscosity index indicates high viscosity changes with temperature. Therefore, a fluid that has a high viscosity index can be expected to undergo very little change in viscosity with temperature extremes and is considered to have a stable viscosity. A fluid with a low viscosity index can be expected to undergo a significant change in viscosity as the temperature fluctuates. For a given temperature range, say -18 to 370C ( 0 - 100F), the viscosity of one oil may change considerably more than another. An oil with a VI of 95 to 100 would change less than one with a VI of 80. Knowing the viscosity index of an oil is crucial when selecting a lubricant for an application, and is especially critical in extremely hot or cold climates. Failure to use an oil with the proper viscosity index when temperature extremes are expected may result in poor lubrication and equipment failure.


cST: Viscosity is ordinarily expressed in terms of the time required for a standard quantity of the fluid at a certain temperature to flow through a standard orifice. The higher the value, the more viscous the fluid. Since viscosity varies inversely with temperature, its value is meaningless unless accompanied by the temperature at which it is determined. With petroleum oils, viscosity is now commonly reported in centistokes (cSt), measured at either 40C or 100 C (ASTM Method D445 - Kinematic Viscosity).



Opinion
And with that said, my thoughts. The Hyundai owner's manual states exactly "5W-20 (5W-30)." This means the manual wants the car to have 5W-20, and if that is not available, then 5W-30.


In my personal opinion, out of all of the motor oils available on the market, 5W-20 is the WORST oil you can put in your car. While the VI index is comparable, and even better than 10W-30, the cST@100 is so low, that under high heat the motor oil is the thinnest out of any other on the market. Add that to high temp environments and the protection keeps getting worse. Now, if you live in a very cold climate, 5W-20 would not be a bad choice during the winter months because of the low cST@40. This means for those cold starts, the oil is less viscous and starts to flow much easier than any other oil.


0W-40 is a performance motor oil (some will say so is 0W-30, I will get to that later). The super high VI means that the oil will hold up the best over the widest temperature range. However, with a cST@40 of 80, this oil is NOT meant to be run in cold climates. The oil is very viscous at low temperatures. It is strictly meant for FI and high performance vehicles.


5W-30 vs. 10W-30. 10W-30 is the response that most people give on these boards when asked which oil they should use. I disagree. Even if you are in warm climates, I still disagree. 5W-30 has a higher VI meaning the oil holds up better at a higher temp range than 10W-30. Additionally, 5W-30 has a higher cST@100, meaning at higher temps it provides more protection for when you are driving your car hard or at high speeds (especially in warmer climates). The 2pt difference of cST@40 is negligible, however, they are both on the high end of the spectrum. Second to 5W-20, 10W-30 has the worst high temperature protection out there. And more importantly, 10W-30 has the WORST VI out of every oil on the list.


0W-30 gets my recommendation for the non-FI Tiburon. It is the best all around. It has a higher VI than 5W-20, 5W-30, and especially 10W-30. If you do not get the importance of the VI index by now, please go up and re-read the definition. Additionally, out of all the oils it offers the best cST@40. Not too thick, not too thin, just right for those cold starts, no matter which climate you are in. Some might say, but the cST@100 for 0W-30 and 10W-30 are only different by .3. Yes. But the VI index of 10W-30 is lower by 28pts!!


To summarize, 0W-30 offers the best protection over the highest temperature range. It isn't too thick at cST@40 and isn't too thin at cST@100. It has a superior VI index to 5W-20, 5W-30, and especially 10W-30. It is truly the best all-climate motor oil.



I hope this helps everyone!!

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post #2 of 35 Old 12-09-2005, 11:04 PM
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Re: Definitive Oil Explanation Thread

Bravo, my good man....Bravo!


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post #3 of 35 Old 12-09-2005, 11:56 PM
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Re: Definitive Oil Explanation Thread

Nice write up.

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post #4 of 35 Old 12-10-2005, 12:23 AM
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Re: Definitive Oil Explanation Thread

good job dude

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Re: Definitive Oil Explanation Thread

very nice. definatelly stickie material!!

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post #6 of 35 Old 12-14-2005, 12:01 PM
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Re: Definitive Oil Explanation Thread

the best oil-info I found is the "motor oil bible"....

I tried to upload the pdf but it's too big.....so download it here:

http://themotoroilsite.com/forums/

EDIT: my favorite oil specs are NOACK volatility and KOH-number


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Re: Definitive Oil Explanation Thread

I'm bumping this back to the top since I've seen a couple questions lately and I had to search for half a damn hour to find it... should be stickied IMO
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post #8 of 35 Old 10-01-2006, 02:18 AM
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Re: Definitive Oil Explanation Thread

Damn BMS that's pretty comprehensive. My last oil change i gave the 0W-30 a shot purely out of coincidence and after seeing your write-up i'm glad i did. I can't tell you if i felt any differences, but at least i have peace of mind that my engine is getting the best oil it deserves!

Just a question though - what does the "weight" part mean (as is 0W or 5W) - and i'm assuming the latter part - 20 or 30 or 40 is the viscosity? Sorry, i'm not scientifically inclined!
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Re: Definitive Oil Explanation Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by bms231
0W-40 is a performance motor oil (some will say so is 0W-30, I will get to that later). The super high VI means that the oil will hold up the best over the widest temperature range. However, with a cST@40 of 80, this oil is NOT meant to be run in cold climates. The oil is very viscous at low temperatures. It is strictly meant for FI and high performance vehicles.
sorry that's not true because:

Quote:
For instance, a 0W grade oil must have a maximum CCS centipoise (cP) value of 3250 @ -30 degrees C as well as a maximum MRV cP of 60,000 @ -40 degrees C. A 5W grade oil must have a maximum CCS cP value of 3500 @ -25 degree C and a maximum MRV cP of 60,000 @ -30 degrees C. The lower the cP value for both specifications, the better.
Notice that the 0W grade oil is tested at a lower temperature on both tests AND must still have a lower CCS cP value than a 5W oil which is tested at a higher temperature. As a result, a 0w30 will allow your vehicle to start easier on a cold morning than a 5w30 will. Likewise, a 5w30 oil will pump easier in cold temperatures than a 10w30 oil will.
remember the lower the viscosity (cP) the THINNER the oil the better it protects in cold environments!!!

I am using Agip Tecsint SX 0W-40 because it gives protection with cold starts AND high revs in summer...

Agip Tecsint SX 0W-40
SAE Grade 0W-40
cSt @ 40 C: 78
cSt @ 100 C: 14
CCS @-35 C: 6200 => gives you real cold-start protection in winter

Viscosity Index, ASTM D 2270: 182
Pour Point, C, ASTM D 97: -42
Flash Point, C, ASTM D 92: 216
TBN number, KOH: 9.9
Noack Test = Oil Consumption (the lower the better): 6.5


did you guys read the motor oil bible I recommended?!


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Last edited by hammerhead; 10-01-2006 at 06:26 AM.
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Re: Definitive Oil Explanation Thread

I always make the dealer go and get Mobil1 fully synthetic. Best stuff!!
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Re: Definitive Oil Explanation Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by hammerhead
sorry that's not true because:



remember the lower the viscosity (cP) the THINNER the oil the better it protects in cold environments!!!

I am using Agip Tecsint SX 0W-40 because it gives protection with cold starts AND high revs in summer...

Agip Tecsint SX 0W-40
SAE Grade 0W-40
cSt @ 40 C: 78
cSt @ 100 C: 14
CCS @-35 C: 6200 => gives you real cold-start protection in winter

Viscosity Index, ASTM D 2270: 182
Pour Point, C, ASTM D 97: -42
Flash Point, C, ASTM D 92: 216
TBN number, KOH: 9.9
Noack Test = Oil Consumption (the lower the better): 6.5


did you guys read the motor oil bible I recommended?!



ok first you are saying one thing then compairing another. then you are not using mobile 1 in here and throwing in other measurments not used for comarison.

so a definition for u.....again....

A high viscosity index indicates small oil viscosity changes with temperature. A low viscosity index indicates high viscosity changes with temperature. Therefore, a fluid that has a high viscosity index can be expected to undergo very little change in viscosity with temperature extremes and is considered to have a stable viscosity. A fluid with a low viscosity index can be expected to undergo a significant change in viscosity as the temperature fluctuates. For a given temperature range, say -18 to 370C ( 0 - 100F), the viscosity of one oil may change considerably more than another. An oil with a VI of 95 to 100 would change less than one with a VI of 80.




THE VI INDEX IS NOT THE VISCOCITY OF THE OIL!!! You have to look at the cSt at certain temperatures. plain and simple.


Mobil 1 0W-30
SAE Grade 0W-30
cSt @ 40C: 56
cSt @ 100C: 10.3
Viscosity Index, ASTM D 2270: 175
Pour Point, C, ASTM D 97: -54
Flash Point, C, ASTM D 92: 234


Mobil 1 0W-40
SAE Grade 0W-40
cSt @ 40 C: 80
cSt @ 100 C: 14.3
Viscosity Index, ASTM D 2270: 187
Pour Point, C, ASTM D 97: -54
Flash Point, C, ASTM D 92: 236

Your oil....
Agip Tecsint SX 0W-40
SAE Grade 0W-40
cSt @ 40 C: 78
cSt @ 100 C: 14
CCS @-35 C: 6200 => gives you real cold-start protection in winter





As you can see, your oil has a cSt @ 40 C of 78

Another defiinition for you that you.... cST: Viscosity is ordinarily expressed in terms of the time required for a standard quantity of the fluid at a certain temperature to flow through a standard orifice. The higher the value, the more viscous the fluid.




bottom line... even the numbers you yourself posted, be defnition, in colder tempuratures w/ a cSt @ 40 C of 78 is WAY MORE VISCOUS than 0w-30.

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Re: Definitive Oil Explanation Thread

and in case anyone else is wondering what CSS is... here is it's definition. it is rubbish and only a prediction. there are hundreds of other outside factors weighing in on flow. not just rubbing two pieces of metal together. it depends on how much volume can be pumped and that is based on viscocity.



COLD CRANKING SIMULATOR APPARENT VISCOSITY (ASTM- D-2602):

Viscosities that are reported using the kinematic viscosity glass capillary test method do not adequately represent how a motor oils performs under cold cranking conditions. Therefore the Cold Cranking Simulator (CCS) test was developed in order to predict the cold cranking properties of oils used in automotive and truck crankcases. A 5 ml sample of oil is placed in the shear zone of the CCS test machine at room temperature. The shear zone consists of a rotor and stator. Coolant then begins to flow in order to drop the temperature of the oil. After three minutes the engine is run for one minute before the machines rotor speed is read. The CCS viscosity is determined in centipoises (cP) by referencing the speed readings obtained with a special calibration curve determined by standard reference oils. The resultant viscosity is called the apparent viscosity at low temperature. This test is extremely useful in predicting engine-cranking viscosities at specified low temperatures and how easily an engine will start in cold temperatures.

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post #13 of 35 Old 10-01-2006, 10:22 AM
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Re: Definitive Oil Explanation Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by hammerhead
the best oil-info I found is the "motor oil bible"....

I tried to upload the pdf but it's too big.....so download it here:

http://themotoroilsite.com/forums/

EDIT: my favorite oil specs are NOACK volatility and KOH-number
I would take everything on that site with a grain of salt, as the person who owns the site is an AMSOIL distributor:

WHOIS Record For
themotoroilsite.com


Registrant:
Michael Kaufman
Automotive Lubrication Online
12151 Vergennes
Lowell, MI 49331
US

Registrar: NameSecure.com
Domain: THEMOTOROILSITE.COM
Created on 04-23-2003
Expires on 04-23-2008

Administrative Contact:
Michael Kaufman
Phone: 616-897-8664
E-mail: info@bestsyntheticoil.com

Technical Contact:
Namesecure Inc.
Phone: 570-708-8418

Name Servers:
NS1.GUARDING-OUR-EARTH.COM 69.93.56.172
NS2.GUARDING-OUR-EARTH.COM 69.93.56.173



The administrative contact for a domain (website) is the owner of the domain. As we can see, this persons contact info references bestsyntheticoil.com. when you surf to THAT site, we see that they sell AMSOIL. Since they have a vested interest in selling their own product, I would expect all information on themotoroilsite.com to point towards synthetics, and AMSOIL specifically, to be the best thing you could put in your car.

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Re: Definitive Oil Explanation Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Voodoo Idol
I would take everything on that site with a grain of salt, as the person who owns the site is an AMSOIL distributor:

WHOIS Record For
themotoroilsite.com


Registrant:
Michael Kaufman
Automotive Lubrication Online
12151 Vergennes
Lowell, MI 49331
US

Registrar: NameSecure.com
Domain: THEMOTOROILSITE.COM
Created on 04-23-2003
Expires on 04-23-2008

Administrative Contact:
Michael Kaufman
Phone: 616-897-8664
E-mail: info@bestsyntheticoil.com

Technical Contact:
Namesecure Inc.
Phone: 570-708-8418

Name Servers:
NS1.GUARDING-OUR-EARTH.COM 69.93.56.172
NS2.GUARDING-OUR-EARTH.COM 69.93.56.173



The administrative contact for a domain (website) is the owner of the domain. As we can see, this persons contact info references bestsyntheticoil.com. when you surf to THAT site, we see that they sell AMSOIL. Since they have a vested interest in selling their own product, I would expect all information on themotoroilsite.com to point towards synthetics, and AMSOIL specifically, to be the best thing you could put in your car.
and he says that upfront. that's no secret and no proof.


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Re: Definitive Oil Explanation Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by bms231

As you can see, your oil has a cSt @ 40 C of 78

Another defiinition for you that you.... cST: Viscosity is ordinarily expressed in terms of the time required for a standard quantity of the fluid at a certain temperature to flow through a standard orifice. The higher the value, the more viscous the fluid.

bottom line... even the numbers you yourself posted, be defnition, in colder tempuratures w/ a cSt @ 40 C of 78 is WAY MORE VISCOUS than 0w-30.
40 degrees celsius is as hot as it can get on the hottest summer day in europe!!!

a good motor oil has LOW viscosity when it's cold and HIGH viscosity when it's warm. 40 degress celsius is ****ing HOT!

for cold starts in winter -35 degrees celsius is what counts for COLD starts. do you know how cold MINUS 35 degrees celsius is?! here in austria we have nights in the alps as cold as that.

here you can see my Tib on such cold places:





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Re: Definitive Oil Explanation Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by hammerhead
and he says that upfront. that's no secret and no proof.
Actually, if it's the same bible that I downloaded a while back, he doesn't disclose that in his little "bible" at all.

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Re: Definitive Oil Explanation Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by hammerhead
40 degrees celsius is as hot as it can get on the hottest summer day in europe!!!

a good motor oil has LOW viscosity when it's cold and HIGH viscosity when it's warm. 40 degress celsius is ****ing HOT!

for cold starts in winter -35 degrees celsius is what counts for COLD starts. do you know how cold MINUS 35 degrees celsius is?! here in austria we have nights in the alps as cold as that.


-35C = 31F. yea, i highly doubt you are starting your car in those conditions b/c if you were you would need a block heater. are you aware of what a pour point is? well, at -54 0W-40 stops pouring. at your magical -35C.... 0W-40 is going to be pumped like sludge. it is clear you only know the basics of oil and go by what things you piece together as opposed to looking at ALL the facts clearly represented in this thread on each oil. i stand by what i said... the facts. you do what you have to do and what makes you happy. i hope the readers can sift through the bull.


and btw....40C (104F) is NOT HOT! your engine internals get to that in seconds of running.

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post #18 of 35 Old 10-01-2006, 02:46 PM
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Re: Definitive Oil Explanation Thread

is anybody grown up enough to just state facts (backed up with sources) than to attack anybody? come on. We want facts not stupid arguments!

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Re: Definitive Oil Explanation Thread

I demand STICKY ! Nice thread !

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i like this kid...lol....he'll grow up to have a TT supra or something...lol.

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post #20 of 35 Old 10-01-2006, 03:47 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Definitive Oil Explanation Thread

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Originally Posted by six
is anybody grown up enough to just state facts (backed up with sources) than to attack anybody? come on. We want facts not stupid arguments!


did you read any of my posts? it started out w/ facts and i presented even more facts. i dont like people who make false accusations.

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post #21 of 35 Old 10-01-2006, 03:54 PM
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Re: Definitive Oil Explanation Thread

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Originally Posted by hammerhead
40 degrees celsius is as hot as it can get on the hottest summer day in europe!!!

a good motor oil has LOW viscosity when it's cold and HIGH viscosity when it's warm. 40 degress celsius is ****ing HOT!

for cold starts in winter -35 degrees celsius is what counts for COLD starts. do you know how cold MINUS 35 degrees celsius is?! here in austria we have nights in the alps as cold as that.

here you can see my Tib on such cold places:



It gets much colder than that here and what BMS is saying is correct. All the techs up here say the same......


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post #22 of 35 Old 10-01-2006, 08:08 PM
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Re: Definitive Oil Explanation Thread

So, if 0w30 is a good oil for N/A, whats a good oil for us s/c guys? Since i bought the car, I've used mobil 1 5w30, and just recently installed a blower. Please grace me with your infinite wisdom bms.

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post #23 of 35 Old 10-01-2006, 08:28 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Definitive Oil Explanation Thread

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Originally Posted by openthewell
So, if 0w30 is a good oil for N/A, whats a good oil for us s/c guys? Since i bought the car, I've used mobil 1 5w30, and just recently installed a blower. Please grace me with your infinite wisdom bms.


actually, for f/i 5w-30 isnt too bad of a tradeoff between starting and high heat operation. however, since you are in CA and not going to see many cold winter 32 degree days, 0w-40 would not be a bad idea either. if you drive your car hard, 0w-40 would be the choice imo. 5w-30 isnt bad at all either.

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post #24 of 35 Old 10-01-2006, 08:53 PM
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Re: Definitive Oil Explanation Thread

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Originally Posted by bms231
actually, for f/i 5w-30 isnt too bad of a tradeoff between starting and high heat operation. however, since you are in CA and not going to see many cold winter 32 degree days, 0w-40 would not be a bad idea either. if you drive your car hard, 0w-40 would be the choice imo. 5w-30 isnt bad at all either.
I was thinking that 0w40 would be good, but its just so damn hard to find around here. Thanks for your advice though, and I'll keep my eyes peeled for 0w40.

On a side note, has anyone had any experience with the Greddy line of oils? I don't normally buy into name brands like Greddy, but common sense would lead me to believe that they probably resell some decent quality oil.

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post #25 of 35 Old 10-01-2006, 09:06 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Definitive Oil Explanation Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by openthewell
I was thinking that 0w40 would be good, but its just so damn hard to find around here. Thanks for your advice though, and I'll keep my eyes peeled for 0w40.

On a side note, has anyone had any experience with the Greddy line of oils? I don't normally buy into name brands like Greddy, but common sense would lead me to believe that they probably resell some decent quality oil.


the only oil i would trust perssonally is amsoil and mobil1.


and that is odd about 0w-40. i cant find 0w-30 out in ohio worth a damn but eveeeery store (even kmart) has 0w-40.

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