Crankshaft Timing Mark TDC - New Tiburon Forum : Hyundai Tiburon Forums
 
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post #1 of 12 Old 03-15-2017, 04:42 AM Thread Starter
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Crankshaft Timing Mark TDC

I'm up a creek without a paddle...

2008 G6BA

Following 'DIY Timing Belt Replacement', I lined everything up, took the crank pulley, belt etc off with no worries. It is in neutral

Putting it back on, I had many worries.
When putting the belt on and turning it over for two rotations, I had the crank pulley overshoot the timing mark, but the cam sprockets were both on TDC. I got mixed up with the instructions while having the belt on and having it off and I rotated the crank pulley two full revolutions and tried again. Same thing happened, so I repeated. On the third time, while rotating the crank, at just short of half a turn it has become stuck, it will not move either way. I took the spark plugs out and it made no difference.

I can't wrap my head around why it's stuck - it makes sense that if it was colliding with valves that it would stop, but would turn back the other way. I'm clutching at straws, but I'm honestly praying that turning it over by hand means that the cylinders weren't lubricated.

Other than 'you've messed it up' or 'call a mechanic', does anyone know what is happening in the engine, and possibly what to do about it?

Thank you

Last edited by ardently; 03-15-2017 at 05:10 AM.
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post #2 of 12 Old 03-15-2017, 08:52 AM
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Re: Crankshaft Timing Mark TDC

Welcome to NT.

Is this an I4?

How far off was the timing when you started this? If a tooth or two, doubt you did anything to the engine while turning it by hand.
You were turning it clockwise, yes?
You let the tensioner go before turning the crank, yes?
Is it still in neutral?

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post #3 of 12 Old 03-15-2017, 09:17 AM
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Re: Crankshaft Timing Mark TDC

G6BA = Delta 2.7 V6

Trying to understand what the poster did. Did you rotate the crank two full revolutions without the timing belt attached? How far off is the crank from TDC when the cams are lined up?

If the valves were somehow open as #1 cylinder approached TDC then its possible they contacted the pistons and jammed the engine. Did you remove all the plugs from the engine or just the from bank?

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post #4 of 12 Old 03-15-2017, 09:40 AM
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Re: Crankshaft Timing Mark TDC

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Originally Posted by dmdicks View Post
G6BA = Delta 2.7 V6

Trying to understand what the poster did. Did you rotate the crank two full revolutions without the timing belt attached? How far off is the crank from TDC when the cams are lined up?

If the valves were somehow open as #1 cylinder approached TDC then its possible they contacted the pistons and jammed the engine. Did you remove all the plugs from the engine or just the from bank?
I thought it was a V6, but didn't want to assume.

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post #5 of 12 Old 03-16-2017, 02:17 AM Thread Starter
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Hi Guys, thanks for your replies

Yep it's the V6

I lined the three marks up when I took the belt off, however when I put it back on it and hand rotated, the sprockets were aligned, but the crank was off by half a tooth (in the clockwise direction) the first time. I took the belt off and then rotated the crank two full revolutions clockwise (I'm a bloody genius I know). Then I put the belt back on and turned the crank through two revolutions and it was off by about a tooth and a half. I took the belt back off and tried to rotate the crank again. At about half a revolution it has seized, and won't move either way.

I took all six spark plugs out and there has been no change. Looking through the holes, there is wet, black, sooty sludge on each cylinder, I'm unsure how deep this is.

I've read a few different things about valve position when at the alignment marks, I'm still trying to find a drawing for this engine which shows whether or not the cylinders will hit the valves when the sprockets are aligned with timing marks.

Hindsight being the beautiful feel-good thing it is, has shown me I should have just rotated the crank counterclockwise
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post #6 of 12 Old 03-16-2017, 09:51 PM
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Re: Crankshaft Timing Mark TDC

Quote:
Originally Posted by ardently View Post
Hi Guys, thanks for your replies

Yep it's the V6

I lined the three marks up when I took the belt off, however when I put it back on it and hand rotated, the sprockets were aligned, but the crank was off by half a tooth (in the clockwise direction) the first time. I took the belt off and then rotated the crank two full revolutions clockwise (I'm a bloody genius I know). Then I put the belt back on and turned the crank through two revolutions and it was off by about a tooth and a half. I took the belt back off and tried to rotate the crank again. At about half a revolution it has seized, and won't move either way.

I took all six spark plugs out and there has been no change. Looking through the holes, there is wet, black, sooty sludge on each cylinder, I'm unsure how deep this is.

I've read a few different things about valve position when at the alignment marks, I'm still trying to find a drawing for this engine which shows whether or not the cylinders will hit the valves when the sprockets are aligned with timing marks.

Hindsight being the beautiful feel-good thing it is, has shown me I should have just rotated the crank counterclockwise
(cylinders wont hit the valves, the pistons will) it sounds like you have a set of intake valves on one bank that are open and a set of exhaust valves open on the opposite bank so you have 2 pistons jammed against them. you should be able to look at the valve train and see if this is the case. if it is, (maybe @Charlie-III or @dmdicks has another way that is easier) you will need to release your cams so all the valves will close up. then set the crank timing marks at TDC #1 cylinder, then align the cam timing marks and reinstall the cams. wedge some rubber under the cam gears and cyl. head so they dont move on you. reinstall timing belt. doubtful you have bent anything at this point.

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Last edited by oni888; 03-16-2017 at 09:54 PM.
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post #7 of 12 Old 03-17-2017, 06:59 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Crankshaft Timing Mark TDC

Hi Oni,

Thanks for your reply mate, you're absolutely right - I meant to say pistons.

What you're saying as a likely cause makes sense! Can you think of how this may have occurred without the cams moving?

Thank you
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post #8 of 12 Old 03-17-2017, 08:06 AM
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Re: Crankshaft Timing Mark TDC

The problem is once you disconnected the crank from the cams by removing the belt you completed messed up the engine timing. Your cams may have been set to cylinder #1 TDC on the ignition stroke but now the crank is on TDC on the exhaust stroke.

You most certainly have valves in contact with pistons and the only real way to fix it is by removing all the cams like oni888 said. This will let you know if you've bent or broken anything and allow you to reset all the timing marks to where they should be.

Make sure you have a copy of the repair manual and follow everything it says.
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post #9 of 12 Old 03-17-2017, 08:35 AM
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Re: Crankshaft Timing Mark TDC

@oni888 is correct.
Now, if I was in your position, there are a couple things I would try, but I also take my own responsibility and the method is more feel and would not translate well to a post.

This, I would go along with @dmdicks and follow the manual for installing heads. I will hazard a guess you don't have to pull the heads but you will likely need to pull the UIM and valve covers.

As an aside, and just for info, with the TB off, turning the crank 1 full turn (360*) is a full cycle.
With the TB on, turning the crank 2 full turns (720*) is a full cycle since the cams are now involved.
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post #10 of 12 Old 03-17-2017, 06:16 PM
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Re: Crankshaft Timing Mark TDC

Quote:
Originally Posted by ardently View Post
Hi Oni,

Thanks for your reply mate, you're absolutely right - I meant to say pistons.

What you're saying as a likely cause makes sense! Can you think of how this may have occurred without the cams moving?

Thank you
youre welcome. i see your question has already been answered but ill try and "re-phrase" it. you have an "interference fit" engine. that means if you move the crankshaft, you must move the camshafts together in unison with the crank lest you have an internal collision since there is no clearance between valve and piston deck when a valve is open and its corresponding piston is at TDC. were it not an interference engine, this would not be a problem and you could just simply "line everything up" and be done with it. good luck, let us know how it works out.

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post #11 of 12 Old 03-19-2017, 03:32 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Crankshaft Timing Mark TDC

Oni, Charlie and Dmdicks, you guys are absolute legends! Lifted the cams, valves closed and crankshaft was free to turn, thank you so much!

Also I now know that at the timing mark for the rear cams, cyl 3 is open for intake and 5 is open for exhaust. I could have rotated the cam a quarter turn clockwise to close all valves, good to know for the future!

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post #12 of 12 Old 03-19-2017, 03:54 PM
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Cool Re: Crankshaft Timing Mark TDC

Quote:
Originally Posted by ardently View Post
Oni, Charlie and Dmdicks, you guys are absolute legends! Lifted the cams, valves closed and crankshaft was free to turn, thank you so much!

Also I now know that at the timing mark for the rear cams, cyl 3 is open for intake and 5 is open for exhaust. I could have rotated the cam a quarter turn clockwise to close all valves, good to know for the future!
So, is it running yet!?!?

We're glad to help, hope it works out. Post back here if something else comes up related to this task, I hate merging threads to keep all relevant info together.

If you have something else come up, it's fine to start a new thread.

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