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#51
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Old Re: DIY: Brake Pad/Rotor 04-28-2008 , 11:44 AM

Will I need the compress the pistons with the kit, or can anything else be used. You said we can rent one from like auto zone or something?
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Old Re: DIY: Brake Pad/Rotor 05-13-2008 , 09:23 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elixar View Post
Will I need the compress the pistons with the kit, or can anything else be used. You said we can rent one from like auto zone or something?
I bought the cube-like "thing" for the rear pistons from Autozone today for ~$8. I went to a Hyundai dealer first but they weren't selling their tool.


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Old Re: DIY: Brake Pad/Rotor 06-03-2008 , 04:27 PM

Thanks for getting the pics back up.

Nobody has mentioned it (at least none that I can see) but what are the torque specs for the brake caliper bolts? Is it really important or just tighten them down good?

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Old Re: DIY: Brake Pad/Rotor 06-03-2008 , 05:13 PM

I came here to get that info myself and then ended up having to look it up.

caliper to knuckle------ 47.94 to 55.32 lb/ft
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Old Re: DIY: Brake Pad/Rotor 06-06-2008 , 12:07 AM

Your DIY really helped me

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Old Re: DIY: Brake Pad/Rotor 06-06-2008 , 11:50 AM

Yepp, me also. I was nervous about doing the install since I've never touched my brakes before but I was really surprised at how easy the job was. I'm confident anyone can do it, as long as you've got an impact driver that is.

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Old Re: DIY: Brake Pad/Rotor 06-06-2008 , 06:03 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick View Post
I came here to get that info myself and then ended up having to look it up.

caliper to knuckle------ 47.94 to 55.32 lb/ft
If you're only doing a brake pad replacement, you don't have to worry about those bolts.

For the front brake pads, just loosen the lower caliper guide rod bolt on the caliper (should be a 12mm head) and swivel the caliper upwards to access the brake pads for removal.

Replace the pads, swivel the caliper back down over the pads after first compressing the piston, and then insert the caliper guide rod bolt. The torque of the caliper guide rod bolts is 16 - 23 lb. ft.


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Old Re: DIY: Brake Pad/Rotor 06-17-2008 , 10:22 PM

I have 2 questions:

1) I have an 05 SE with the painted 'hyundai' calipers. I haven't examined them that closely, but if i remember correctly it looks a little different. will it still flip up like the one in the picture?

2) Ok, so you compress the pistons and then you put in the new pads. The pads rest against the pistons, and the pistons apply the pads to the rotor. But as far as i can tell, there is nothing that holds the pad to the piston, so how does the pad retract from the rotor when you take your foot of the brake pedal? is it somehow fastened to the piston or anything? because it seems like it just sits in there.

3) the hand held impact screwdriver. I was thinking that was a power tool, but i went to autozone and the guy showed me something that looked like a chissel. You could put different bits on the end of it, and when you hit the back of it with a hammer the bit would rotate. Is that what i want?

4) I hope power of dreams pops in. Power's post about the grove in the rear caliper piston having to be in the 6 oclock position other wise the shim wont fit, would that have sloved schroder's problem that he ended up removing the shim because of? is this shim something that has to be removed from the old brake pads and applied to the new ones?
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Old Re: DIY: Brake Pad/Rotor 06-18-2008 , 08:52 AM

I took a closer look at my calipers, they are the same as the ones in the pictures in this thread i guess so they should flip up just he same.

bump for answers to the other questions.
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Old Re: DIY: Brake Pad/Rotor 06-18-2008 , 08:29 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paxfaux View Post
I have 2 questions:

1) I have an 05 SE with the painted 'hyundai' calipers. I haven't examined them that closely, but if i remember correctly it looks a little different. will it still flip up like the one in the picture?
I can almost assure you that they do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parfaux
2) Ok, so you compress the pistons and then you put in the new pads.
First thing you want to do when replacing brake pads is to remove some brake fluid from the master cylinder reservoir. Here's the reason. You have to compress the caliper piston back into the caliper. When you do that, you force the brake fluid, located directly behind the caliper piston (hydraulic force acts directly upon the caliper piston when you press the brake pedal), back into the brake lines and the remainder of the brake system.

Well, the master cylinder is also part of the brake system. Guess where that brake fluid goes? It will travel back into the master cylinder reservoir. If your reservoir is topped off with brake fluid when you compress the caliper piston, the brake fluid will overflow from the reservoir and get all over the engine bay. It'll make a mess. So, just take some out beforehand and then refill it after you are completely done with some new brake fluid.

After you have done that, then simply remove the bottom caliper guide rod bolt from the caliper. That's for the front calipers. I believe for the rear, since the parking brake mechanism is incorporarted into the rear caliper, you need to remove both caliper guide rod bolts --- the one on top and the bottom. Then just move the entire caliper out of the way (well, technically, you're moving half the caliper since the other part is still attached to the hub/ knuckle assembly).

After you have either rotated the caliper out of the way, or removed it (you can remove both if you want, front and back; it won't hurt), then you can take the pads out of the caliper. Note where the pad wear indicator is located on the inner pad before you remove it. It'll be either on the top or bottom. Make sure you place the correct inner pad on the correct side so that the pad wear indicator will be in the same spot (top or bottom).

It's a very good idea to grease the back of the pad where the piston will touch it, and also grease the very top and bottom extremity of the pad where it will sit inside the caliper. Finally, grease the outer "fangs" or "hooks" on the caliper. That's where the caliper will contact the outer pad. Buy some synthetic brake caliper grease for the job.

NOTE: NEVER grease the friction material. Only grease the part of the pad where the friction material attaches to. Grease will eliminate squeals when the pad vibrates and metal pieces rub against each other (caliper rubs on brake pad, or piston rubs on inner pad).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parfaux
The pads rest against the pistons, and the pistons apply the pads to the rotor.
Only the inner pad on each side rests against the caliper piston. The outer pads rest against the outer portion of the caliper (the part of the caliper which looks like two chunky hooks or fangs).

[quote=Parfaux]But as far as i can tell, there is nothing that holds the pad to the piston, so how does the pad retract from the rotor when you take your foot of the brake pedal?
Many mechanisms are incorporated to the brake system to relax the pad off the rotor when the brake pedal is released.

Here's an excerpt from Automotive Brake Systems to describe how it occurs,
Quote:
When the driver releases the brakes, the pressure behind the piston drops
This is caused by the master cylinder [primary and secondary] piston return springs inside the master cylinder which cause the [primary and secondary] pistons inside the master cylinder to quickly return to their resting position when the brakes are released. This causes a sudden pressure differential, essentially sucking the caliper piston inwards, whereas pressing the brake pedal creates positive pressure, forcing the caliper piston outwards.

Furthermore,
Quote:
The [caliper piston] seal relaxes, or springs back, and moves the [caliper] piston back. As the piston moves back, the caliper relaxes and moves in the opposite direction on the guide pins to the unapplied position. The [caliper] piston seals provide the self-adjusting action and required pad-to-rotor clearance...
So, whenever you have your caliper off, and pads out, try to clean as many components as possible, including the metallic pad retainers on the caliper (they get caked up with brake dust), caliper guide pin boots (they are rubber; clean them and lubricate them with a light silicon grease if possible), and also the caliper piston boot (spray with brake cleaner and spray with silicon spray before compressing piston into boot; otherwise, boot tends to bind up, especially the rear caliper piston boot).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parfaux
is it somehow fastened to the piston or anything? because it seems like it just sits in there.
Well, the pads do sit inside the caliper, but they are retained by pad retainers, typically located on the top and bottom of the caliper. You'll see them when you open the caliper to remove the pads.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parfaux
3) the hand held impact screwdriver. I was thinking that was a power tool, but i went to autozone and the guy showed me something that looked like a chissel. You could put different bits on the end of it, and when you hit the back of it with a hammer the bit would rotate. Is that what i want?
Sounds exactly like it. Should come with a Phillips bit, or two. Try to use the biggest Phillips bit possible when placing the bit inside those screws.

Here's another trick to getting those screws out easier.

1. Take a ball-pen hammer (one curved head and one flat head) and place the curved head directly against the screw. Then, take a small sledge and smack the ball pen hammer as its sits against the screw. This will jar the screw as it sits in the rotor, breaking it free from rust and so forth. Do this before you even attempt to remove the screw and it will make the job so much easier.

2. Spray a small shot of PB Blaster onto each screw. Try not to get it on the rotors. If you do, just remove it with a shot of brake cleaner.

Both of these will allow you to remove the screws much easier. #1 is a trick of the trade I learned from a fellow mechanic. Hasn't failed me yet and I do brake jobs very often.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parfaux
4) I hope power of dreams pops in. Power's post about the grove in the rear caliper piston having to be in the 6 oclock position other wise the shim wont fit, would that have sloved schroder's problem that he ended up removing the shim because of? is this shim something that has to be removed from the old brake pads and applied to the new ones?
I don't even know that the inner pad has a shim on it. I can't remember. But, if that protrusion on the back of the inner pad does not sit inside the cross-hair groove of the caliper piston, your pad will not sit right. It will be ****-eyed.

Here's a pic of the rear pad.



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#61
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Old Re: DIY: Brake Pad/Rotor 06-18-2008 , 09:02 PM

Hey thanks for all the great info. When you say grease the fangs you mean the inside of the caliper that is on the opposite side of the pitson? Basically you want to grease any part of the pad and caliper where the two will touch, but don't grease any part of the pad that will touch the rotor, right? do you grease over the piston? grease the surface of the piston itself and the back of the pad? i will be installing a Ksport bbk that has four pistons on both sides. and two bolt on top of the caliper that are in sleeves. I guess those are the caliper guide bolts so i will grease them too. so far it seems like when grease is called for the more you use the better, is that true hear. i have to get a specail caliper grease? i have a silione grease that is not good enough?

Also, you said to note the pad wear indicator and to install it so that it is in the same orientation. what is the pad wear indicator, what does it look like?

So the pads are held in place buy the guide pins and elements of the caliper which prevents side to side motion in relation to the rotor, but the only thing that moves them in towards the rotor and away from it is the piston and the effects of heat and pressure after the relase of the piston? what about when you first install them, and you pump the brakes? just releasing the pressure that was applied by the piston will 'suck' the pad away from the rotor? i guess i should read your link before i ask so many questions.

finally, in the case of the stock caliper, the outer pad is not compressed by a piston, so does the inner pad actually move the rotor a little so that it contacts the outer pad?
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Old Re: DIY: Brake Pad/Rotor 06-18-2008 , 09:08 PM

i was going to get a very large square hammer to hit the impact screw driver with, and also to beat the sh!t out of the rotors if i can't get them off. I believe it was called a blacksmith's hammer at home depot. Basically the head was about the size you would normally see on a sledge hammer but the handle ( i think it was all one heavy peice of metal, head and handel) was about the size of a normal hammer. Sort of like Thor's hammer i guess. Is that way over kill? would i be better off with the ball-pen hammer?
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Old Re: DIY: Brake Pad/Rotor 06-18-2008 , 09:12 PM

lol u can also try to heat up the rotors with a blowtorch if they arent coming off and u dont care about damaging them

most ppl on here seem to have trouble getting them off so just do what u have to lol
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Old Re: DIY: Brake Pad/Rotor 06-18-2008 , 09:20 PM

can i hit it from the back and from the front (LOL, I mean the rotor of course) i'm thinking that might help to losen it up. Is there anything on on the hub i should avoid hitting other then the lug bolts? I think thats probably it, because i think everything else you can see is really part of the rotor.
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Old Re: DIY: Brake Pad/Rotor 06-18-2008 , 09:27 PM

if u can get to the back to hit it then yea go for it....i havent done it on the tib yet but i know for other cars, i had to put a torch to it for awile around the lugs and such then beat it with a sledge...and other times the ones with the most rust seemed to just slip off...so if ur lucky u wont have to worry about it, but more than likely you will have to bust it loose

and yea just dont mess up the lugs unless you are replacing those also

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Old Re: DIY: Brake Pad/Rotor 06-18-2008 , 11:22 PM

[quote=Paxfaux;2635988]I
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paxfaux View Post
Hey thanks for all the great info. When you say grease the fangs you mean the inside of the caliper that is on the opposite side of the pitson?
Exactly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parfaux
Basically you want to grease any part of the pad and caliper where the two will touch, but don't grease any part of the pad that will touch the rotor, right?
Exactly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parfaux
do you grease over the piston? grease the surface of the piston itself and the back of the pad?
Just the back of the inner pad (as opposed to both inner pad and piston) since the piston will sit against the back of the inner pad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parfaux
i will be installing a Ksport bbk that has four pistons on both sides. and two bolt on top of the caliper that are in sleeves. I guess those are the caliper guide bolts so i will grease them too. so far it seems like when grease is called for the more you use the better, is that true hear. i have to get a specail caliper grease? i have a silione grease that is not good enough?
Use grease sparingly on the pads. Just a light coat will do. Don't be too liberal with it as you don't want it getting anywhere else.

Don't really use heavy grease on the caliper guide bolts. Try to find a silicon-based light lubricant.

Also, try to use the synthetic caliper grease. AutoZone, O'Reilly, and Advance all have it in stock.

At Honda, we use something called Molykote.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parfaux
Also, you said to note the pad wear indicator and to install it so that it is in the same orientation. what is the pad wear indicator, what does it look like?
Metal tab that is riveted or bonded to the back of the inner pad only. Can't miss it. It's purpose is to contact the rotor when the friction material on the brake pad has reached its service limit. It emits a squealing noise, hence why some people call them squealers.

[quote=Parfaux\So the pads are held in place buy the guide pins and elements of the caliper which prevents side to side motion in relation to the rotor, but the only thing that moves them in towards the rotor and away from it is the piston and the effects of heat and pressure after the relase of the piston?[/quote]
Heat really doesn't come into play. Pads aren't held in place by guide pins. Guide pins allow caliper to move side-to-side without much restriction when the piston pushes the inner pad. Newton's Law. Equal and opposite reaction. Pads are held inside caliper by metal pad retainers, usually clipped to the top and bottom of the calipers.

[quote=Parfaux]what about when you first install them, and you pump the brakes? just releasing the pressure that was applied by the piston will 'suck' the pad away from the rotor?
Nothing sucks the pad away actually. Kinda' hard to explain in words.

Check out this animation ("self-adjusting brakes")

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parfaux
finally, in the case of the stock caliper, the outer pad is not compressed by a piston, so does the inner pad actually move the rotor a little so that it contacts the outer pad?
Nah. The rotor does not move horizontally. The caliper moves horizontally. That's why there is a need for those guide pins. They guide the caliper as it moves horizontally, in and out.


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Old Re: DIY: Brake Pad/Rotor 06-18-2008 , 11:27 PM

Just keep on it with a sledge and spray plenty of PB Blaster. All you need is elbow grease. Don't go overkill with torches and all that stuff.

Remember, it's just rust that is binding it. Break the rust free and it will come loose shortly thereafter. Just keep turning, hitting, and then pull side-to-side (wiggle).


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Old Re: DIY: Brake Pad/Rotor 07-03-2008 , 10:33 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Power of Dreams View Post

Heat really doesn't come into play. Pads aren't held in place by guide pins. Guide pins allow caliper to move side-to-side without much restriction when the piston pushes the inner pad. Newton's Law. Equal and opposite reaction. Pads are held inside caliper by metal pad retainers, usually clipped to the top and bottom of the calipers.
There is a metal clip that clips between the guide pins and the calipers, the instructions call it an anti-rattle clip, but i guess it must act as a retainer as you say. thanks a lot you've been a great help. I think by asking all my idiot questions this DYI is now 100% idiot proof.
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Old Re: DIY: Brake Pad/Rotor 07-07-2008 , 02:36 PM

My rear rotors were a SOB to break loose. I just used a gallon of WD-40 and a piece of 2x4 and whacked it about 200 times with a regular hammer. finally broke loose.

I also broke one of the Phillips screws that hold the rotor on since I probably hit it one to many times with the impact screw driver but what ever those screws don't matter anyways since the lug nuts will hold the rotor on.

I also took the opportunity to clean things up a bit with brake cleaner and re-grease the pins and guides.



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Old Re: DIY: Brake Pad/Rotor 12-28-2008 , 03:40 PM

I just changed my rear pads about an hour ago, and I did it without the tool and without bleeding the brakes. All I used was a 14mm wrench, channel locks, and a C-clamp. Most of the time, the piston would go in just by turning it with the channel locks, but every once in a while it would seem to slow down or stop, so I'd just put the C-clamp back on it.



I did not bleed the brakes at all, and nothing bad happened. The fluid level rose slightly in the master cylinder, and now it's just below max.


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Old Re: DIY: Brake Pad/Rotor 03-07-2009 , 08:54 PM

I would also recommend some PB Blaster for the rusted in bolts...I tried to do my brakes today and after trying to break a bolt loose for an hour I gave up and put my wheel back on. Something to break loose seized bolts is definitely a plus for this DIY. Other than that though, I could have done the whole job in about 1-2 hours. Doesn't seem too bad.
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Old Re: DIY: Brake Pad/Rotor 03-21-2009 , 01:55 PM

Im in the middle of doing my brakes right now, i have the front two done. In order to get the front rotors off i had to use a sledge from the back atleast 150 times on each of them. Now im on the rear rotors and they're stuck to. My problem is there is no way to hit these from the back. Does anyone have any suggestions?

Im doing this in Addison, IL right now at the shop where i work.....anyone in the area wanna swing by and give me a hand? shoot me a pm and i'll give you directions or something.

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Old Re: DIY: Brake Pad/Rotor 04-14-2009 , 10:30 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
I just changed my rear pads about an hour ago, and I did it without the tool and without bleeding the brakes. All I used was a 14mm wrench, channel locks, and a C-clamp. Most of the time, the piston would go in just by turning it with the channel locks, but every once in a while it would seem to slow down or stop, so I'd just put the C-clamp back on it.
I just changed my rear pads on Sunday. I had heard about the channel lock trick and considered doing that, but heard that if you slip off of the piston or accidentally grab too far back you can bit the piston boot and damage it, which will prevent the rear brakes from engaging and disengaging like they're supposed to. Instead I went down to the local Pep Boys and picked up one of these little suckers...



It's just this little thing that fits on the end of a a 3/8" socket wrench. You fit whichever side has the proper teeth into the grooves in the piston (for the Tib it's the side with four little pentagonal teeth on each corner. In the one pictured it's the left-hand side that's facing away from us), stick in a short socket extension so that you can turn the wrench itself, and then just push in while turning the wrench. Once I had the system down (doing that first wheel always takes you a few moments to figure out what you're doing) I was able to get the second wheel off, the old pads out, the new pads in, the piston compressed, and the everything back together in under ten minutes. That little tool was a life saver.

And the thing was only like $5 at the Pep Boys. Well worth it for how much easier it makes things, not to mention the peace of mind knowing that I wasn't going to accidentally slip a pair of channel locks and take out the piston boot...

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Old Re: DIY: Brake Pad/Rotor 05-04-2009 , 02:37 PM

Nice DIY Looks good.

Andrew
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Old Re: DIY: Brake Pad/Rotor 05-05-2009 , 03:09 PM

Agree, never cheap out on things. Get the correct tool to do the job right.


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