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post #1 of 26 Old 03-19-2017, 09:08 PM Thread Starter
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ECU problem?

Goodnight people, i'm writing here because i have a problem with my tiburon 2004 2.7 6cyl. It wont start. A friend of mine check it and the injectors have no voltage, i check the ecu relay and the fuse and they both are working fine. Could this be a Computer problem? Hope you can help me, Thanks.
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post #2 of 26 Old 03-20-2017, 12:30 AM
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Re: ECU problem?

Welcome to NT.

So, how many miles on the Tib?
How long have you owned it?
What happened, did it just die on you, has it been sitting a while, was work done to it and now it won't start, did you drive through 3' of water, did you try to jump start it and now you have an issue?

Wifes car: 2004 Tib GT, 2.7L, 5MT, 188K miles, medium blue, basically stock.
My car: 1998 Legacy GT wagon, 2.5L, 5MT, 176K miles, "Quicksilver", not stock and not slow...
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post #3 of 26 Old 03-20-2017, 12:49 AM
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Re: ECU problem?

does the CEL illuminate when ignition is on?
can you connect to the ECU via OBD-II?
are there any other ECU signals active? (such as o2 sensor heater circuit)
can you hear the fuel pump when you first tern on the ignition?
was the car sitting for a while, if so, critters might have taken a bite out of your engine harness for lunch
have you checked the engine ground?

just to be sure, he was cranking the engine when checking the injector sensor voltage, right?

ECU problems aren't common for tibs as far as I can tell, I doubt it failed.
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post #4 of 26 Old 03-20-2017, 07:15 AM Thread Starter
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Re: ECU problem?

Yes the CEL is on.
My friend connected his scanner and there was an o2 sensor code.
The fuel pump sounds like always when i turn the ignition.
I use the car daily, is my personal car.
Yes the ground is connected.
Yes he cranked the engine.
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post #5 of 26 Old 03-20-2017, 07:23 AM Thread Starter
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Re: ECU problem?

it have 105,000 miles
its been with me for a year now
the car is of daily usage
and yes i drived it through like a foot of water but he didnt show any symptoms of failure, so i keep going. After that i went to the gas station i turnt off the engine and when i went to turnt it on, he wouldn't start.
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post #6 of 26 Old 03-20-2017, 08:28 AM
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Re: ECU problem?

How do you know the injectors are not working?

Driving through water can soak the ignition and other bits. Thus, when you shut it off, you no longer have spark or other systems.
Letting it sit may allow it to dry and start.

Does it crank at normal speed? Does it crank faster?
Does it sound like ittrying to start at all or just cranks?

When was the timing belt done?
Do you have spark?

Wifes car: 2004 Tib GT, 2.7L, 5MT, 188K miles, medium blue, basically stock.
My car: 1998 Legacy GT wagon, 2.5L, 5MT, 176K miles, "Quicksilver", not stock and not slow...
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post #7 of 26 Old 03-20-2017, 08:44 AM Thread Starter
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Re: ECU problem?

I dont know how he tested the injectors, but he told me that they were not activating. After that he sprayed a little bit of carb cleaner through the throttle and the car almost start but then it went to the same thing. The car cranks at normal speed but he wont turn on. I haven't change the timing belt since a bought the car last year. Yes there's spark.
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post #8 of 26 Old 03-20-2017, 10:26 AM
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Re: ECU problem?

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Originally Posted by tibu2 View Post
I dont know how he tested the injectors, but he told me that they were not activating. After that he sprayed a little bit of carb cleaner through the throttle and the car almost start but then it went to the same thing. The car cranks at normal speed but he wont turn on. I haven't change the timing belt since a bought the car last year. Yes there's spark.
OK, good info. Carb cleaner is not the best for the test, but it's a sorta fuel. The fact the engine tried to run indicates a likely fuel issue.
O2 sensor code should not keep the car from running.
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Wifes car: 2004 Tib GT, 2.7L, 5MT, 188K miles, medium blue, basically stock.
My car: 1998 Legacy GT wagon, 2.5L, 5MT, 176K miles, "Quicksilver", not stock and not slow...
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post #9 of 26 Old 03-20-2017, 10:46 AM Thread Starter
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Re: ECU problem?

yes that's true. I forgot to to mention that when we test it with the scanner, it also throws the codes of all the cylinders.
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Re: ECU problem?

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Originally Posted by tibu2 View Post
yes that's true. I forgot to to mention that when we test it with the scanner, it also throws the codes of all the cylinders.
So, a P0300 (random misfires) or P0301-306? Fuel won't normally trip misfires, ignition does, thus my comment the coils/wires/plug well could be wet.

It gets frustrating for us to get info in bits and pieces. Better would be:

Hi, I have a 2004 V6 with 105,000 miles on it, 5MT, stock. I've owned it a year and it's a DD. No recent work done to the car, timing belt mileage unknown.
Ran through about a foot of water, not long after that I shut it off to get gas. Now it cranks normally but won't start.
-has a O2 code (P0xxx)
-has misfire code P0xxx
-has spark on front 3 cylinders
-the fuel pump runs when you turn the key on
-engine starts to run when cranking and you spray carb spray into the intake
-checked injectors (how?) and they don't have power
-checked ECU relay (which one?) and fuse (which one?) and they are fine
-ground is connected (which one, the main one from the UIM to firewall?)



Note: I made a few guesses on things, the rest is from your answers to questions. In the list, I asked some more questions that need to be answered.

I doubt it's the ECU.
Could be a timing belt.
Could be water in ignition parts
Could be a failed/failing sensor (crank since it sits low?)

Wifes car: 2004 Tib GT, 2.7L, 5MT, 188K miles, medium blue, basically stock.
My car: 1998 Legacy GT wagon, 2.5L, 5MT, 176K miles, "Quicksilver", not stock and not slow...
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Last edited by Charlie-III; 03-20-2017 at 11:11 AM.
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post #11 of 26 Old 03-20-2017, 11:38 AM Thread Starter
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Re: ECU problem?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie-III View Post
So, a P0300 (random misfires) or P0301-306? Fuel won't normally trip misfires, ignition does, thus my comment the coils/wires/plug well could be wet.

It gets frustrating for us to get info in bits and pieces. Better would be:

Hi, I have a 2004 V6 with 105,000 miles on it, 5MT, stock. I've owned it a year and it's a DD. No recent work done to the car, timing belt mileage unknown.
Ran through about a foot of water, not long after that I shut it off to get gas. Now it cranks normally but won't start.
-has a O2 code (P0xxx)
-has misfire code P0xxx
-has spark on front 3 cylinders
-the fuel pump runs when you turn the key on
-engine starts to run when cranking and you spray carb spray into the intake
-checked injectors (how?) and they don't have power
-checked ECU relay (which one?) and fuse (which one?) and they are fine
-ground is connected (which one, the main one from the UIM to firewall?)



Note: I made a few guesses on things, the rest is from your answers to questions. In the list, I asked some more questions that need to be answered.

I doubt it's the ECU.
Could be a timing belt.
Could be water in ignition parts
Could be a failed/failing sensor (crank since it sits low?)

Sorry i'm new in this kind of stuff, but thanks for the tip. I didn't put the codes numbers because i don't really know them since i was not seeing the scanner my self. I didn't see how he tested the injectors either. I checked the ECU relay and fuse located at the hood fuse box, and i also checked the fuse located on the driver side fuse box. The ground that i checked was the one that goes from the engine to the frame. Could it be possible to a faulty crank position sensor not to show at the scanner?
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post #12 of 26 Old 03-20-2017, 04:19 PM
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Re: ECU problem?

If the crank sensor failed it could cause a no-start condition, I don't have personal experience but I've seen it happen to others. I'd say the ECU is fine, I'd guess it may not be injecting because it doesn't know what poison the engine is in. (crank sensor failures are not uncommon)

Also, timing belts seem to fail when starting the engine rather than running. You mentioned that it tried to run when you sprayed carb cleaner, so I wouldn't be too concerned for this case but definitely get it changed soon. You don't know what condition it's in or when it needs to be replaced so you're best off putting a new one on, for piece of mind alone.

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Re: ECU problem?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Evenger View Post
If the crank sensor failed it could cause a no-start condition, I don't have personal experience but I've seen it happen to others. I'd say the ECU is fine, I'd guess it may not be injecting because it doesn't know what poison the engine is in. (crank sensor failures are not uncommon)

Also, timing belts seem to fail when starting the engine rather than running. You mentioned that it tried to run when you sprayed carb cleaner, so I wouldn't be too concerned for this case but definitely get it changed soon. You don't know what condition it's in or when it needs to be replaced so you're best off putting a new one on, for piece of mind alone.
Thanks for the reply, could you tell me whats the difference between the cam sensor and the crank sensor?
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Re: ECU problem?

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Originally Posted by tibu2 View Post
Thanks for the reply, could you tell me whats the difference between the cam sensor and the crank sensor?
Cam sensor is a part of the head and tells the ECU what the cam is doing.
Crank sensor is part of the engine block down low and tells the ECU what the crank is doing.

While how these sensors work is similar, the actual part may be different.

Wifes car: 2004 Tib GT, 2.7L, 5MT, 188K miles, medium blue, basically stock.
My car: 1998 Legacy GT wagon, 2.5L, 5MT, 176K miles, "Quicksilver", not stock and not slow...
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Re: ECU problem?

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Originally Posted by Charlie-III View Post
Cam sensor is a part of the head and tells the ECU what the cam is doing.
Crank sensor is part of the engine block down low and tells the ECU what the crank is doing.

While how these sensors work is similar, the actual part may be different.
Which one do you recommend me to change first to see if it fix the problem?
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Re: ECU problem?

The crank sensor is located right next to the hot exhaust manifold and tend to get brittle / fried over time, that big water splash might have been the last straw for it. I would start with the crank sensor, it seems more likely to have a problem than the cam sensor.

Edit: another thing you could do before spending money is getting to the actual ECU connector and see if you get voltage there, It could simply be a break in the wire.
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Re: ECU problem?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tibu2 View Post
Which one do you recommend me to change first to see if it fix the problem?
I agree with Charlie and The_Evenger's suggestion. If I were you, I'll move CPS to the top of my list. Start by removing the Crankshaft Position Sensor (CPS), if the wire look bad, that's your issue. If you need replacement, make sure to get OEM sensor from Amazon or ebay. You'd need thin wall 10mm 1/4" socket with 6" extension.

I had intermittent issue with the CPS going bad and finally after few weeks, threw a code P0335. My conclusion is that Tiburon with 100k miles needs new CPS. These sensors don't necessarily go bad but it's the wires that get frayed over time due to heat as suggested by The_Evenger. See this thread for pics: Bad Crankshaft Position Sensor! need advice

About your injectors not getting the 12v, some Hyundai's have a relay near the interior fuse panel box, that goes bad due to water damage. Not sure if 2004 Tibby has one. See Jimthecarguy's video on Accent: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsQcLya1YLQ

Once you get your car started n running, change the timing belt immediately.

Good luck and keep us posted.
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Re: ECU problem?

Thank you all for the ideas, Tomorrow i will check to see if i can find the relay that aseenav said. If the relay is fine i will proceed to buy the crankshaft position sensor. I will keep you all posted.
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Re: ECU problem?

I'm with all the other folks. Chances are you have some cracking wiring on the crank sensor harness and plowing through a big puddle splashed water on the wiring and shorted it out.

Did you check ALL fuses inside the cabin and inside the engine bay?
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Re: ECU problem?

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Originally Posted by dmdicks View Post
I'm with all the other folks. Chances are you have some cracking wiring on the crank sensor harness and plowing through a big puddle splashed water on the wiring and shorted it out.

Did you check ALL fuses inside the cabin and inside the engine bay?
Yes i checked all of them and they are fine, i will follow the advice of you and the others of replacing the crank sensor. I will keep you all posted.
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Re: ECU problem?

Update
I change the cam and the crank sensor and the car started, after like 15 min we decided to turn it off, and when we went to start it he wont again, he is doing the same thing but know he is blowing out the fuse h/lp that is a number 15. We put a multimeter on it and he is going negative. How should i proceed?
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Re: ECU problem?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tibu2 View Post
Update
I change the cam and the crank sensor and the car started, after like 15 min we decided to turn it off, and when we went to start it he wont again, he is doing the same thing but know he is blowing out the fuse h/lp that is a number 15. We put a multimeter on it and he is going negative. How should i proceed?

Does it crank and not start? There are couple of spare 15A fuses in the engine fuse-box.
There are two h/lp fuses, which one did it blow? hi or low? Sounds like short somewhere. Also check the volt in the battery and the alternator.
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Re: ECU problem?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aveenav View Post
Does it crank and not start? There are couple of spare 15A fuses in the engine fuse-box.
There are two h/lp fuses, which one did it blow? hi or low? Sounds like short somewhere. Also check the volt in the battery and the alternator.
I did that and he blow it again, the car is blowing the low one. We are thinking that it could be the crank sensor wire, somewhere making contact with metal, and causing the shortcut, because when we replaced the crank sensor the car started fine, it was after turning him off and then on, that he started to blow that fuse and not turning on.He is back at the beggining. I will check those voltages that you said. Thanks
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Re: ECU problem?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tibu2 View Post
I did that and he blow it again, the car is blowing the low one. We are thinking that it could be the crank sensor wire, somewhere making contact with metal, and causing the shortcut, because when we replaced the crank sensor the car started fine, it was after turning him off and then on, that he started to blow that fuse and not turning on.He is back at the beggining. I will check those voltages that you said. Thanks
That's a good guess. I'll see if I could find wiring diagram for that 3-pin connector.

I looked into the wiring diagram (C113 - Crank and C114 -Cam), to me it seems like SNSR fuse should blow if there was a short in those connection. We need experts to chime in. Anyways, here's the wiring diagram (overwhelming for me :-)) if it could help you.

Wiring diagram: http://www.newtonnet.co.uk/coupe/GK-.../GK/etm_sc.swf

Keep this post updated, I'd be interested to hear how you proceed with your diagnosis and possibly learn.
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post #25 of 26 Old 03-22-2017, 11:23 PM Thread Starter
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Re: ECU problem?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aveenav View Post
That's a good guess. I'll see if I could find wiring diagram for that 3-pin connector.

I looked into the wiring diagram (C113 - Crank and C114 -Cam), to me it seems like SNSR fuse should blow if there was a short in those connection. We need experts to chime in. Anyways, here's the wiring diagram (overwhelming for me :-)) if it could help you.

Wiring diagram: http://www.newtonnet.co.uk/coupe/GK-.../GK/etm_sc.swf

Keep this post updated, I'd be interested to hear how you proceed with your diagnosis and possibly learn.
Thanks man! very helpful i will keep you all posted to let you know how this problem is solve. I will take a look to the diagram right know, Thanks again!
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