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post #1 of 35 Old 05-02-2017, 09:59 PM Thread Starter
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ECU Software Revision Info and P0133

Anyone know what is the latest software revision for a 2006 I4 Tib?

I'm chasing a P0133 on my Tib and I'm wondering if the software in my ECU is the latest and greatest and if there is any value in taking the car to the dealer to have the software updated to the latest revision.

Anyone have a list of updates for 2006?
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post #2 of 35 Old 05-03-2017, 01:17 AM
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Re: ECU Software Revision Info and P0133

You can likely go to Hyundai USA or NHTSA.gov, put in your vin and look up TSB's and recalls.

If I remember next time I'm at the shop, I could look it up on Identifix.

I know the 04's had an update for the p0153 & p0133. I would follow this.....https://www.obd-codes.com/p0133 which also lists exhaust leaks.

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post #3 of 35 Old 05-03-2017, 08:19 AM
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Re: ECU Software Revision Info and P0133

Do you have an mods to your 06 that might be the cause?

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post #4 of 35 Old 05-03-2017, 10:18 AM Thread Starter
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Re: ECU Software Revision Info and P0133

No mods. All stock. Was running fine, and then one day threw the P0133. I've tested and investigated a million things and now believe there might be an issue with the ECU itself.

Charlie-III, I dug around a bunch online and did not turn up a reliable source for the TSB's or software revision. I went to two dealers in my area and the answer was "Bring it in, and for $150 we'll hook it up and check the rev."

I mean... I'd be happy to pay for an update, but they won't even tell me if there IS one without paying first. I don't want to pay $150 for them to hook it up only to tell me "We didn't have to update anything, yours is already the latest revision. You can pay on your way out."

I would be much obliged if you could check whatever sources you have at the shop.

Thanks for the help guys!!
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post #5 of 35 Old 05-03-2017, 11:01 AM
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Re: ECU Software Revision Info and P0133

You can get the version info of the ECU with an advanced diagnostic tool or Cascade emulator. That info isn't very useful without knowing if it's been superseded or not.

I can get a copy of the current Hyundai j2534 software (they charge $75 for it) but you need a j2534 programmer to use it. Unfortunately they cost $1k+ unless you find a used one. Another option is a Hyundai/KIA GDS VCI clone for $160, but the software isn't legit so you have to jump through quite a few hoops to get it working.
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post #6 of 35 Old 05-03-2017, 06:41 PM
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Re: ECU Software Revision Info and P0133

I fought with that code for a few months, what did it for me was putting dielectric grease in the o2 sensor connector. it stayed away for the rest of my ownership after that.

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post #7 of 35 Old 05-03-2017, 09:24 PM Thread Starter
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Re: ECU Software Revision Info and P0133

h8isgr8, Couple days ago I used a brand new Snap-On tool, and pulled whatever ID info I could out of the ECU. I didn't find anything called "software revision", but I do have the "Cal ID", and the "Cal verify" information. I'm not sure if that's the software revision or not, but that's all I found.

Is Cal ID or Cal Ver one of those parameters the version info you were referring to?

The_Evenger, Thanks for the input. I've already cleaned, tightened, and lubed the sensor connections and am 100% sure that it's not a connection issue to the sensor. I'm open to any suggestion at this point though, so don't hesitate to bring ideas up!!
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post #8 of 35 Old 05-03-2017, 09:46 PM
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Re: ECU Software Revision Info and P0133

I believe "Cal ID" is the same as a revision number.

Wifes car: 2004 Tib GT, 2.7L, 5MT, 193K miles, medium blue, basically stock.
My car: 1998 Legacy GT wagon, 2.5L, 5MT, 176K miles, "Quicksilver", not stock and not slow...
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post #9 of 35 Old 05-04-2017, 09:27 AM Thread Starter
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Re: ECU Software Revision Info and P0133

Charlie-III,

Well if that's the case, then here's what I got out of the ECU:

Cal ID:
$11 - G6NCSP2B
$18 - TGK2C20NC3
Did you find out any info regarding any revisions for 2006?
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post #10 of 35 Old 05-04-2017, 09:59 AM
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Re: ECU Software Revision Info and P0133

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Originally Posted by Tiberius View Post
Charlie-III,

Well if that's the case, then here's what I got out of the ECU:

Cal ID:
$11 - G6NCSP2B
$18 - TGK2C20NC3
Did you find out any info regarding any revisions for 2006?
I may be at the shop today, I only work there part time as needed.

Wifes car: 2004 Tib GT, 2.7L, 5MT, 193K miles, medium blue, basically stock.
My car: 1998 Legacy GT wagon, 2.5L, 5MT, 176K miles, "Quicksilver", not stock and not slow...
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post #11 of 35 Old 05-04-2017, 09:28 PM Thread Starter
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Re: ECU Software Revision Info and P0133

So one of my options, of course, is to purchase a brand new ECU. But before I pull the trigger on that, I've got some questions.

First, I've found numerous sources (including a TSB from Hyundai) that say you cannot reprogram or rewrite the VIN into a used ECU that already contains a VIN. Anyone care to contest that belief? Anyone done it, or know someone who says they can do it? I don't mind using a used part, but it needs to have the correct VIN because of my emissions test.

Second, if I DO purchase a new ECU without a VIN, I understand that it will throw a P0630 code for an unprogrammed VIN. No problem, I can deal with that error code until I write the VIN. But the question is... Will the emissions diagnostics tests run with that error code present, or will the MIL prevent the diagnostics from running? I would really like to perform a couple drive cycles before I burn the VIN to make sure it fixes the problem I'm chasing.

And Charlie-III, Thanks again. When you get a chance to take a look, please let me know. I'm not looking forward to the prospect of buying a new ECU and would love to be able to salvage the one I have.
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post #12 of 35 Old 05-05-2017, 09:01 AM
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Re: ECU Software Revision Info and P0133

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Originally Posted by Tiberius View Post
First, I've found numerous sources (including a TSB from Hyundai) that say [B][I]you cannot reprogram or rewrite the VIN into a used ECU that already contains a VIN.
It's possible on some models in foreign markets, but it can't be done on models sold in the US. Sure, there might be some crazy Russian hacker that can do it, but it's can't be done through "normal" means.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiberius View Post
Second, if I DO purchase a new ECU without a VIN, I understand that it will throw a P0630 code for an unprogrammed VIN. No problem, I can deal with that error code until I write the VIN.
P0630 is PERMANENT. It only takes a single drive cycle to set and there's no going back.

Why are you so convinced that the ECU is the problem? You haven't gone into detail about what you've checked so far. Intake leak? Cracked manifold? Leaky flex pipe? PCV valve? Injectors? Fuel pump? Reset the ECU by disconnecting the battery? Engine grounds good? O2 sensor connections?

A P0133 usually means something else is wrong that's making the sensor cranky.
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post #13 of 35 Old 05-05-2017, 09:04 AM
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Re: ECU Software Revision Info and P0133

It could be something as simple as a frayed wire somewhere.

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post #14 of 35 Old 05-05-2017, 11:04 AM Thread Starter
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Re: ECU Software Revision Info and P0133

I'd be happy to go into the details of what I've looked into so far, but before I do that, I'll cut to the chase...

I've got two ECU's. Both from 2006 4-cyl automatics:

First, I have my original ECU. This one has the correct VIN, but it throws a throws P0133. However, the P0133 is the RESULT of an issue, not the cause of the issue. The CAUSE of the issue is that the O2 signal moves slowly and is way off from a 50% duty cycle. The ECU (as it should) picks up this misshapen and slow moving O2 signal and flags a P0133.

The second ECU I have is one from another Tib. Same model year, engine, trans, and everything, but a couple months older. It obviously has the wrong VIN but other than that, everything works perfect. The O2 signal moves about twice as fast as my original ECU, and because of that, it never flags a P0133. All the emissions tests run great, and after two drive cycles, I'm ready for an emissions test.

I can swap the ECUs around in about sixty seconds to test them under the same operating conditions. Same temperature, same rpm, same inputs and outputs, same everything. One of them has a slow moving 80% duty cycle sensor signal and the other one has a signal that is very close to 50% duty cycle and switches much faster.

Give me a minute, I'll upload some pics.....
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Re: ECU Software Revision Info and P0133

Here's a pic of the O2 sensor output when running my original ECU. There isn't any timebase, so you can't get any glean any info about the absolute value of the switching frequency, but you can see the lopsided duty cycle and how it seems to hang at the upper end:



Pop the other ECU in and about sixty seconds later under all the exact same operating conditions, here's a pic of the sensor output when running the used replacement ECU. Again, you can't tell the absolute frequency, but since the timebase is the same you an see that it switches about twice as fast. Also note that the duty cycle is much better and it doesn't hang:



And to make sure what I was seeing on the scanner(s) was reality, I also verified that the signals really really do look like that at the sensor. I used a scope and a breakout cable to verify that the waveforms I see on the scanners is an accurate representation of what's going on at the sensor itself:





So, I'm all ears to ideas! Last thing I want to do is waste big money on a brand new ECU only to put it in and find that it doesn't fix my problem. I'd be thrilled if someone can help me figure out a reason why these two ECUs operate differently and potentially save me the cost of buying a new one! I'm just about out of ideas!
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post #16 of 35 Old 05-05-2017, 11:33 AM
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Re: ECU Software Revision Info and P0133

Two things.

1- your old ECU worked fine for years, I would say a new O2 sensor should make it work fine again.
2- since you have access to 2 different ECU's, why not compare "Cal ID's?"

I know there is an update r our ECU to fix the O2 sensor operation, but it works fine with a new O2 sensor.

Wifes car: 2004 Tib GT, 2.7L, 5MT, 193K miles, medium blue, basically stock.
My car: 1998 Legacy GT wagon, 2.5L, 5MT, 176K miles, "Quicksilver", not stock and not slow...
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Re: ECU Software Revision Info and P0133

Inspect and clean every ground wire in the engine bay. If you have a Guitar Center near you go get a can of this and use it liberally on every connector (O2, ECU, grounds, etc)....

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post #18 of 35 Old 05-05-2017, 01:32 PM Thread Starter
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Re: ECU Software Revision Info and P0133

Charlie-III, Thanks for the suggestions.

I did pull the Cal ID's from both the ECU's and they appear to be the same. However, there is an "Index" number on the paper label on the outside of the ECU's and I don't know what that represents. Although the part numbers are the same between the two, the index number is different. The earlier used one is "Index 11" while my original is "Index 13". Where I come from, I could see that index number being a minor change somewhere with the ECU's. Not a significant enough change to warrant a part number change, but could be anything from a resistor value tweak to a minor software revision.

As for the sensor, after clearing the error and verifying that it came back, the first thing I did was put in a new sensor. This is the sensor I'm running currently, although I see no difference with my original 39210-23170 sensor, a Denso aftermarket, or this one which is installed now:



You mentioned an update to fix the O2 sensor operation? What else can you tell me about that? Got any more info?
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Re: ECU Software Revision Info and P0133

h8isgr8, Thanks for the suggestions as well!

I have disconnected and cleaned up the ground connections. I also (even though I cannot imagine it having anything to do with the issue) removed and cleaned up the alternator to insure I was getting good ground connection there as well. I even pulled and cleaned up the ECU grounding connection on the interior firewall behind the ECU:



I measured the resistance of the ground connections with my Ohmmeter, and it's down in the sub-ohm weeds. Not being satisfied with just a direct Ohm measurement, I also pulled the fuel pump relay and measured the voltage drop across the engine grounding connections while cranking the starter. Essentially using the current from the starter to highlight any suspicious or weak areas of the grounding system. The results are as follows:

Battery negative post to body while cranking - .075 Volts while cranking
Ground braid to intake manifold while cranking - .050 Volts while cranking

Even while the high current from the starter is flowing through those ground points, the voltage drop is less than a tenth of a volt at each connection location. Confirmation that I've got good low resistance connections through the ground system.

Keep the suggestions coming, I'm all ears!!!
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Re: ECU Software Revision Info and P0133

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Charlie-III, Thanks for the suggestions.

You mentioned an update to fix the O2 sensor operation? What else can you tell me about that? Got any more info?
It was a TSB that at least covered the '04 V6, it was something like "lazy upstream O2 sensor fix" which would be a software revision.
The nearest dealer wants the car for a whole day to do a few minute fix, not happening. Not sure why we can't set a time, then drive up and do the flash.

I don't have the TSB in front of me to see the years covered, nor which engines. As I stated before Hyundai or NHTSA.gov should use your VIN to show all recalls and TSB's that are for your car.

Wifes car: 2004 Tib GT, 2.7L, 5MT, 193K miles, medium blue, basically stock.
My car: 1998 Legacy GT wagon, 2.5L, 5MT, 176K miles, "Quicksilver", not stock and not slow...
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Re: ECU Software Revision Info and P0133

I've heard that there are "secret" TSBs that only Hyundai has access through their GDS. To even search for an PCM/TCM update they need to hook the car up to the GDS, which is why they charge you even if there isn't an update.

On a side note, Hyundai is changing up their diagnostic interface once again. The PC based GDS was EOL this last December. They're now using an Android based system...

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post #22 of 35 Old 05-05-2017, 05:11 PM Thread Starter
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Re: ECU Software Revision Info and P0133

Thanks again guys.

So what's got me here on diagnosis is that clearly the system is capable of working properly.

For example, the O2 sensor is clearly capable of responding fast enough. It's not an issue with the sensor. The senor is just reporting what it's seeing in the exhaust stream. It's that my ECU isn't adjusting the mixture fast enough. And also for example, the injectors are clearly capable of responding fast enough. However, my ECU isn't adjusting them fast enough.

One ECU adjusts the mixture faster and the O2 responds faster accordingly.
The other ECU adjusts slower, and the O2 sensor responds slower. Slow enough to throw the P0133.

Ringing any bells as to some other signal or sensor somewhere that could be borderline and affecting the ECU loop update rate?
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Re: ECU Software Revision Info and P0133

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Originally Posted by Tiberius View Post
Thanks again guys.

So what's got me here on diagnosis is that clearly the system is capable of working properly.

For example, the O2 sensor is clearly capable of responding fast enough. It's not an issue with the sensor. The senor is just reporting what it's seeing in the exhaust stream. It's that my ECU isn't adjusting the mixture fast enough. And also for example, the injectors are clearly capable of responding fast enough. However, my ECU isn't adjusting them fast enough.

One ECU adjusts the mixture faster and the O2 responds faster accordingly.
The other ECU adjusts slower, and the O2 sensor responds slower. Slow enough to throw the P0133.

Ringing any bells as to some other signal or sensor somewhere that could be borderline and affecting the ECU loop update rate?
As I said before, I know there was a TSB reflash for slow response in the '04 V6, don't know if your car is covered.
Look it up, see if it applies.
Otherwise, go to a dealer, let them hook it up, see if there is an update. That will cost you something though.
Hoping I'm at the shop tomorrow for a bit, pissing rain here today, not gimping the 1/2 mile in the rain just to check.

Wifes car: 2004 Tib GT, 2.7L, 5MT, 193K miles, medium blue, basically stock.
My car: 1998 Legacy GT wagon, 2.5L, 5MT, 176K miles, "Quicksilver", not stock and not slow...
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post #24 of 35 Old 05-06-2017, 02:54 PM
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Re: ECU Software Revision Info and P0133

OK, so I was at the shop today, the TSB was only for a lazy O2 on the V6, nothing listed for the I4. Since there was no TSB, I didn't see anything related to software version numbers.

Fixes I saw were:
Fix exhaust leaks (mostly flex pipes)
Replace sensor, B1S1, some also B1S2
Add ground to wire on sensor B1S1 (additional ground to sensor ground that goes through harness)
Clean engine grounds (mostly large braid off UIM)
Replace CAT

Leak test I do is to jack the car up, place on stands, start car, have some block off the exhaust tip (heavy gloves or rag) while I go underneath and listen/feel for leaks. Start at the head and go backwards down the pipe.

Wifes car: 2004 Tib GT, 2.7L, 5MT, 193K miles, medium blue, basically stock.
My car: 1998 Legacy GT wagon, 2.5L, 5MT, 176K miles, "Quicksilver", not stock and not slow...
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post #25 of 35 Old 05-06-2017, 10:07 PM Thread Starter
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Re: ECU Software Revision Info and P0133

Excellent. Thanks for checking into it. Parallels what I've been able to find at my end as well. A local buddy of mine at a shop spent a little time on his system (Techlink or something like that?). He came up with the same result in that there was nothing for the I4.

I'm guessing the TSB for the V6 is to address the seemingly easy accidental switching of the rear bank sensor wires. A little off topic, but I don't get that... The I4 swaps the connector direction around between S1 and S2 making it impossible to put a sensor in the wrong spot. Like they couldn't have done that with the V6 as well?

So I didn't put the car on the lift with the engine running checking for exhaust leaks, but I did plug the tailpipes and poke around with the car on the ground and didn't hear/feel anything.

I have NOT replaced the rear B1S2 sensor, but I'd be hard pressed to explain why that would change anything. First, the code is for the front sensor, and second... The other ECU loves the rear sensor (as well as the rest of the exhaust system) the way it is. I have been considering replacing it though. I'm torn between taking a chance on a cheap potential solution, and throwing "good money after bad".

I've also seen the suggestion to add a new additional ground to the O2 sensor, and while I have no foundation to believe that should do anything, I will check that. That will be cake to test with my sensor breakout cable.

Thanks again for all the assistance and ideas.
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