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post #1 of 26 Old 02-14-2017, 10:23 AM Thread Starter
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p0174 questions

Hey guys,

Quick question, I have the p0174 and I have done the research and see that it could be an intake leak or dirty MAF. I don't see any leaks everything is fine. I have not cleaned my MAF yet but i'm also not sure if that's the problem.

Lately my car has been VERY sluggish. I googled that and found a post where this guy described my EXACT symptoms. everyone swore up and down that he had a blown cylinder but he didn't. no codes. no nasty smoke nothing. Later he updated that he had a clogged cat. the cat on the exhaust manifold blew chucks and clogged the secondary cat.

Now...I do have an injen cai....I also have a catback exhaust...so my question is. if my exhaust is clogged and the car is running sluggish and I mean SLUGGISH, would that cause the CEL to come on with this code? I stomp on the gas and the car goes NO WHERE. so its sucking in a ton of air but not going anywhere so the mixture of fuel to air has to be off right? Just because you have a cylinder 4 misfire doesn't mean you need a new spark plug if you know what I mean...sometimes codes come on for something that's not so obvious. just trying to see what you guys think. thanks.
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post #2 of 26 Old 02-14-2017, 10:49 AM
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Re: p0174 questions

What's the specs on your Tib like model year, mileage, time since last tune up, oil change, timing belt change?

Has the problem existed since you installed your CAI? Are you sure the MAF is oriented correctly with the air flow arrow pointed towards the throttle body? What type of filter is on the CAI? Oiled or Dry?

If your Tib is a later model 07 or 08 those are more sensitive to modifications in general.
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post #3 of 26 Old 02-14-2017, 01:07 PM
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Re: p0174 questions

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Originally Posted by Bps03GT View Post
Hey guys,

Quick question, I have the p0174 and I have done the research and see that it could be an intake leak or dirty MAF. I don't see any leaks everything is fine. I have not cleaned my MAF yet but i'm also not sure if that's the problem.

Lately my car has been VERY sluggish. I googled that and found a post where this guy described my EXACT symptoms. everyone swore up and down that he had a blown cylinder but he didn't. no codes. no nasty smoke nothing. Later he updated that he had a clogged cat. the cat on the exhaust manifold blew chucks and clogged the secondary cat.

Now...I do have an injen cai....I also have a catback exhaust...so my question is. if my exhaust is clogged and the car is running sluggish and I mean SLUGGISH, would that cause the CEL to come on with this code? I stomp on the gas and the car goes NO WHERE. so its sucking in a ton of air but not going anywhere so the mixture of fuel to air has to be off right? Just because you have a cylinder 4 misfire doesn't mean you need a new spark plug if you know what I mean...sometimes codes come on for something that's not so obvious. just trying to see what you guys think. thanks.
P0174 SYSTEM TOO LEAN (BANK2) this means if faulty spark plug is in the set of cylinders of Bank 2 possibly you found your problem. Did you check the rubber intake hose from the MAF to the Throttle body? I changed mine few months ago it was cracked badly and it can of cracked allow unmetered air to enter the system after the MAF which will lean your car. Check these two, replace faulty spark plug and come back to us with your observations. Good luck!

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post #4 of 26 Old 02-14-2017, 01:16 PM Thread Starter
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Re: p0174 questions

03 v6 with 160k. oil change was just done last Thursday. tune up and timing belt was done in September.

the problem did come after the CAI was installed. but not right away and only after it got really cold. i'm not sure if that matters. it was like 20 below windchill for a few days and at first I thought it was just too cold because it would run a little better when it got hot. now it doesn't seem to matter. its been running like this for a couple months maybe and i'm just now getting the check engine light. runs great shifts great but its just SLOW. My gf drives a VW Beetle and I think she would win in a race.... it has a spectre filter and I think it was oiled. The arrow for sure points towards the throttle body.
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post #5 of 26 Old 02-14-2017, 01:23 PM
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Re: p0174 questions

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03 v6 with 160k. oil change was just done last Thursday. tune up and timing belt was done in September.

the problem did come after the CAI was installed. but not right away and only after it got really cold. i'm not sure if that matters. it was like 20 below windchill for a few days and at first I thought it was just too cold because it would run a little better when it got hot. now it doesn't seem to matter. its been running like this for a couple months maybe and i'm just now getting the check engine light. runs great shifts great but its just SLOW. My gf drives a VW Beetle and I think she would win in a race.... it has a spectre filter and I think it was oiled. The arrow for sure points towards the throttle body.

Last but not least check your MAF sensor for dirt and that nasty oil that sport filters are oiled with. If a filter is oiled extensively it can f..k up your MAF I have seen it happen. It can also get the MAF really dirty but you are getting a cylinder misfire code and if I was you I will check this spark plug and repace it

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post #6 of 26 Old 02-14-2017, 01:55 PM
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Re: p0174 questions

Also if a Tune up was done recently that means the upper intake manifold was off. If whoever didn't change out the gasket and/or torque it down properly you may have a vacuum leak of some sort.

Also check the condition of the intake air temp sensor on the back on the manifold. I bet its buggered.

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post #7 of 26 Old 02-14-2017, 02:08 PM Thread Starter
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Re: p0174 questions

theres no misfire codes. just the 0174

The upper manifold gasket was replaced but I will spray some cleaner around where it seals to see if the idle changes. As far as the sensor in the back idk about that i'll have to check.
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post #8 of 26 Old 02-14-2017, 05:11 PM
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Re: p0174 questions

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Also if a Tune up was done recently that means the upper intake manifold was off. If whoever didn't change out the gasket and/or torque it down properly you may have a vacuum leak of some sort.

Also check the condition of the intake air temp sensor on the back on the manifold. I bet its buggered.
Tune up was last September, so a while ago although it may have taken a while to show up.

OP, reading this..... https://www.obd-codes.com/p0174 dirty MAF is a possibility since power loss may be a symptom. Use MAF spray, nothing else and don't wipe/rub the sensor, just remove it and spray it from both sides, let dry and reassemble.
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post #9 of 26 Old 02-15-2017, 02:22 AM
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Re: p0174 questions

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Last but not least check your MAF sensor for dirt and that nasty oil that sport filters are oiled with. If a filter is oiled extensively it can f..k up your MAF I have seen it happen. It can also get the MAF really dirty but you are getting a cylinder misfire code and if I was you I will check this spark plug and repace it
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Tune up was last September, so a while ago although it may have taken a while to show up.

OP, reading this..... https://www.obd-codes.com/p0174 dirty MAF is a possibility since power loss may be a symptom. Use MAF spray, nothing else and don't wipe/rub the sensor, just remove it and spray it from both sides, let dry and reassemble.
I agree with Charlie-III and as I mentioned before you do need to clean your MAF sensor, especially since you are using a performance air filter. These filters are supposed to allow air to flow more freely than the standard air filter and even though producers claim that oiling them provides better stopping ability of dirty particles I do not believe that. I have examined myself this condition with my previous 2001 2.0 16V Coupe. I had K&N filter on it a cone type and it did not filter better than the OEM Hyundai Mobis filter. Moreover, the oil if excessive can and will contaminate the MAF sensor so yeah clean the MAF and report back on results. Also using a diagnostic tool erase your vehicle adaptaions or just disconnect the battery from the - for couple of minutes and reconnect it.

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post #10 of 26 Old 02-15-2017, 09:12 AM
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Re: p0174 questions

That's why I asked if the CAI had a oil or dry filter.. Didn't see an answer to that...IMHO never use an oiled filter on a MAF sensor car.
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post #11 of 26 Old 02-15-2017, 09:40 AM
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Re: p0174 questions

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That's why I asked if the CAI had a oil or dry filter.. Didn't see an answer to that...IMHO never use an oiled filter on a MAF sensor car.
You are quite right with your quoted statement and I completely agree with you! Cheers!

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post #12 of 26 Old 02-15-2017, 01:02 PM
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Re: p0174 questions

If you're only running lean on bank 2 we can safely assume that you don't have a bad MAF, fuel pump, or fuel regulator, any of those items would affect both banks equally. If you really wanted to see if it was the MAF you can just unplug it, If the performance problem goes away after unplugging the MAF then it probably is it, or at least contributing to it.

Other than that it could be a clogged injector, vacuum leak, if the timing belt jumped a tooth or two it could contribute to the performance problem, bad o2 sensor (in my experience it's unlikely)

what do your fuel trims look like? what do the short term fuel trims do when you're on the throttle compared to off the throttle?
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Re: p0174 questions

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If you're only running lean on bank 2 we can safely assume that you don't have a bad MAF, fuel pump, or fuel regulator, any of those items would affect both banks equally. If you really wanted to see if it was the MAF you can just unplug it, If the performance problem goes away after unplugging the MAF then it probably is it, or at least contributing to it.

Other than that it could be a clogged injector, vacuum leak, if the timing belt jumped a tooth or two it could contribute to the performance problem, bad o2 sensor (in my experience it's unlikely)

what do your fuel trims look like? what do the short term fuel trims do when you're on the throttle compared to off the throttle?
Very good analysis I liked it and I believe you are correct. By the way my tib skipped three teeth on the timing belt after the clutch replacement. The only thing that happened was check engine light on, extremely bad performance and undrivable. What I consider to be extremely lucky about is that I did not destroy the engine as it is an interference one chances are quite high. So what I want to check now is also timing because sometimes it idles a bit rough on traffic lights. Idle does not change RPM arrow is stable but I can feel it in the steering wheel. Do you have an idea what it can be?

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post #14 of 26 Old 02-15-2017, 02:38 PM
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Re: p0174 questions

How did it skip three teeth during a clutch replacement? I'm genuinely curious how that happened.

My first thought for the vibration would be engine mounts, there are tests you can do but I prefer to just get my eyes on them to tell if they're good or not. If the engine is off time I would think it would cause it to shake more than normal, but I have no idea if that's true or not. If you leave it in gear with the clutch down at traffic lights it may not be fully disengaging, to test that just put it in neutral and see if it stops.

Oddly enough in my old i4 auto the entire car would shake at stoplights if I left it in drive but didn't in neutral. I got in the habit of putting it in neutral during stop lights from that car and it carried over to my manual :p

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Re: p0174 questions

Skipped 3 teeth on what? What part is no longer in alignment?

Depending on where it skipped in the combustion cycle and what it skipped on meaning either cams or crank or both you could've bent a valve or something. I'd recommend doing a leak down and compression test to make sure the engine is still healthy.
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post #16 of 26 Old 02-16-2017, 02:29 AM
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Re: p0174 questions

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How did it skip three teeth during a clutch replacement? I'm genuinely curious how that happened.

My first thought for the vibration would be engine mounts, there are tests you can do but I prefer to just get my eyes on them to tell if they're good or not. If the engine is off time I would think it would cause it to shake more than normal, but I have no idea if that's true or not. If you leave it in gear with the clutch down at traffic lights it may not be fully disengaging, to test that just put it in neutral and see if it stops.

Oddly enough in my old i4 auto the entire car would shake at stoplights if I left it in drive but didn't in neutral. I got in the habit of putting it in neutral during stop lights from that car and it carried over to my manual :p
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Skipped 3 teeth on what? What part is no longer in alignment?

Depending on where it skipped in the combustion cycle and what it skipped on meaning either cams or crank or both you could've bent a valve or something. I'd recommend doing a leak down and compression test to make sure the engine is still healthy.
To make a long story short, I firstly ordered a clutch replacement from Ebay with lightweight single-mass flywheel and the bearing they sent me did not want to lock to the pressure plate. So a friend of mine had the stupid idea (I did not know it is a stupid idea at the time) to try and twist a bit the engine to one side in order to try and lock the release bearing in place. Well guess what it still did not lock however the timing skipped 2 teeth backwards and 1 tooth forwards on the crankshaft. As I mentioned before after starting check engine light illuminated, vehicle misfirred badly and was awful overall.

Clutch is disengaging perfectly, no issues there.

What would be the exact symptoms of a bent valve on our vehicles?
Did anyone had to deal with that?

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post #17 of 26 Old 02-16-2017, 10:10 AM
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Re: p0174 questions

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What would be the exact symptoms of a bent valve on our vehicles?
Did anyone had to deal with that?
Symptoms could be:
Rough idle
Down on power
O2 sensor codes
Odd sounds while running, could be intake or exhaust related, depends on which valve.

The way to fix it is to replace the valve, if you were to bend it back, you have likely fatigued the metal which could lead to valve breakage.

Compression test would show at least a reduced pressure, maybe a much lower reduced pressure.
Leakdown test would show leakage, your ear could tell if exhaust or intake valve.

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post #18 of 26 Old 02-16-2017, 10:15 AM
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Re: p0174 questions

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Symptoms could be:
Rough idle
Down on power
O2 sensor codes
Odd sounds while running, could be intake or exhaust related, depends on which valve.

The way to fix it is to replace the valve, if you were to bend it back, you have likely fatigued the metal which could lead to valve breakage.

Compression test would show at least a reduced pressure, maybe a much lower reduced pressure.
Leakdown test would show leakage, your ear could tell if exhaust or intake valve.
In your opinion, knowing our engines how likely is that a valve was bent?
Furthermore, I talked to my friend who is very well experienced mechanic and he maintains everything on my Coupe and he was more than confident that there is no way my vehicle has a bent valve because he said that in his experience cars with bent one or more valves will misfire bad and will loose a cylinder most of the time. Mine does not loose any cylinder all 6 work in order. So I wonder

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Re: p0174 questions

It doesn't take much to bend a valve honestly. How do you know you skipped 2 teeth backwards and 1 forward? Did you have the timing covers off while the engine was being worked on? Just curious. 2 teeth in either direction is quite a bit when you factor in how much more the cams turn in relation to the crank.
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post #20 of 26 Old 02-16-2017, 12:18 PM
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Re: p0174 questions

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It doesn't take much to bend a valve honestly. How do you know you skipped 2 teeth backwards and 1 forward? Did you have the timing covers off while the engine was being worked on? Just curious. 2 teeth in either direction is quite a bit when you factor in how much more the cams turn in relation to the crank.
You are right I know that 2 are a lot, but my amateur guess is that somehow the other one that was in the opposite direction somehow compensated to a certain degree and thanks god no damage is really observed. To be honest I consider myself to be extremely, extremely lucky having in mind that this is an interference engine. Chances are I should have by now rebuilt the complete motor. I mean the vehicle was really really awful to drive it misfired badly, shook at idle and had no power at all.

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post #21 of 26 Old 02-17-2017, 09:23 AM Thread Starter
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Re: p0174 questions

sprayed the MAF and no difference. however I noticed I had a small oil leak ON TOP of my valve cover and the gaskets are new. I did it when I did the timing belt and tune up. so I took that plastic vacuum hose off, the one that goes from valve cover to valve cover (on the passenger side) is split wide open on each end. so there lies a definite leak. would this cause my issue? I have to run to the junk yard for the part or dealership. local parts stores wont have it.
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post #22 of 26 Old 02-17-2017, 09:39 AM
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Re: p0174 questions

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sprayed the MAF and no difference. however I noticed I had a small oil leak ON TOP of my valve cover and the gaskets are new. I did it when I did the timing belt and tune up. so I took that plastic vacuum hose off, the one that goes from valve cover to valve cover (on the passenger side) is split wide open on each end. so there lies a definite leak. would this cause my issue? I have to run to the junk yard for the part or dealership. local parts stores wont have it.
Yeah, that leak is an issue. You can take the hose to a local auto parts place and match it up to a new oil resistant hose.
I would also look at your LTFT's now, OK is +/- 10%, ideal is +/- 5% or less.

Once you fix the leak, clear the ECU and see what happens.
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post #23 of 26 Old 03-07-2017, 12:09 AM Thread Starter
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Sorry for the delay on the update. Replaced the hose and no difference. Check engine light went away on its own right away without clearing the codes.

Here's the link I found when I Google's the issue. This is EXACTLY what I have going on if anyone cares to read

http://www.newtiburon.com/forums/hyu...ge=1&_k=zm7esl
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post #24 of 26 Old 03-07-2017, 12:45 AM
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Re: p0174 questions

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Originally Posted by Bps03GT View Post
however I noticed I had a small oil leak ON TOP of my valve cover and the gaskets are new.
Did you replace the spark plug tube seals? A bad seal can cause oil to leak down and flood the spark plug tube.

When I replaced the valve cover gasket on a 2004 Elantra last summer the gasket and tube seals were so hard a brittle they just crumbled when removing them.
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post #25 of 26 Old 03-08-2017, 10:04 AM Thread Starter
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Re: p0174 questions

yes they came with the valve cover gaskets so i replaced those as well
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