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post #1 of 20 Old 07-06-2019, 08:49 AM Thread Starter
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Crank end OD (timing sprocket ID)?

So my crank seal is leaking... badly. Lost an entire 5qt jug of oil on the last week of just driving to work. It's the worst oil leak I've ever personally seen on a car. I replaced it when I did the timing belt in Oct 2017 (less than 10k miles ago). The OEM seal wasn't leaking at all, but I figured I would just do it while I had everything apart since a new one came in the kit. Bad idea in retrospect. The seal either went in slightly crooked or there was a small piece of debris that got trapped; who knows.

Anyway, I plan on replacing it tomorrow, but I want to 3D print a tool to install it properly. I need to do that today before I take everything apart tomorrow. I'm having a hell of a time finding the OD of the end of the crank. Would really appreciate if someone could help me out with that.
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post #2 of 20 Old 07-06-2019, 09:30 AM
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To properly seat the seal you need a pipe/ socket long enough to fit over the crank and have a diameter and thickness to push on the right part of seal. It also has to survuve being hit with a mallet. Unless your printing with metal your tool will break.

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post #3 of 20 Old 07-06-2019, 09:53 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Crank end OD (timing sprocket ID)?

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Originally Posted by dmdicks View Post
To properly seat the seal you need a pipe/ socket long enough to fit over the crank and have a diameter and thickness to push on the right part of seal. It also has to survuve being hit with a mallet. Unless your printing with metal your tool will break.
I'm not worried about the tool breaking, trust me. 100% infill PETG will be waaaay stonger than it needs to be to seat a seal. I just need the OD of the crank end so I can make sure the face of the tool stays aligned. I'm stuck right now in the design process until I know that dimension. This will take hours to print so I can't wait and measure it myself.
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post #4 of 20 Old 07-06-2019, 10:34 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Crank end OD (timing sprocket ID)?

So looking at a picture of the crank and knowing the seal ID is 37mm, the end dimension looks to be around 30MM. Sound about right? Anyone? Ok, I'll go with 31mm for clearance. Thanks.
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post #5 of 20 Old 07-06-2019, 11:25 AM
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Cool Re: Crank end OD (timing sprocket ID)?

Me thinks you are over thinking this.
Large diameter seals I "tippy tap" in with a small hammer.
Small seals, I use a deep socket that "just clears" the OD of the seal (meaning a tiny bit smaller OD than seal OD).
Wheel bearing grease (or white lithium grease) on seal OD and ID so it slips in and has lube until normal lube takes over.

Just my thoughts of many seal installs.
No.....I do not own a "seal install kit"......

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My car: 1998 Legacy GT wagon, 2.5L, 5MT, 176K miles, "Quicksilver", not stock and not slow...
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post #6 of 20 Old 07-06-2019, 11:38 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Crank end OD (timing sprocket ID)?

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Me thinks you are over thinking this.
Probably, but I don't want to take any chances considering I obviously did something wrong the first time. I don't even remember what I used before (either a socket or piece of pipe). Hell, I couldn't even remember if I actually changed it or not. Had to look at the old thread I made about doing the timing belt. 20+ years of working 3rd shift is taking its toll on my mind.

It's no big deal for me to try and make my own tool before I resort to other methods. 20 minutes in TinkerCAD and couple dollars worth of filament. It's printing now. I'll post a pic in 9 hours or so when it's done.
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post #7 of 20 Old 07-06-2019, 06:44 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Crank end OD (timing sprocket ID)?

Done printing. This thing is solid. Not the least bit worried about it breaking. I just hope my guesstimation on the shaft size is correct.

Just bought my 3D printer a few months ago and it's turning out to be a great investment. These things are so cheap now there's no reason NOT to have one. Extremely versatile tool to have around.
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post #8 of 20 Old 07-06-2019, 07:05 PM
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Re: Crank end OD (timing sprocket ID)?

Some external ridges, a battery thingy inside....I know of sites you could sell that on....
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post #9 of 20 Old 07-07-2019, 06:25 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Crank end OD (timing sprocket ID)?

Welp, I'm thoroughly screwed. Old seal was being a PITA to get out. Can't get in there properly with a puller because of the huge lip on the oil pump casting. Tried to drill a tiny pilot hole to get a screw in and the bit slipped between the seal and crank... and then it slipped again. Now it has two nasty gouges.

Guess my only option now is to see if I can find a speedy sleeve ASAP. FML.

EDIT: Looks like AutoZone has a National 99145 sleeve in stock. I don't know how a sleeve is going to work out on this engine though. The sleeve has a lip to aid installation and it looks like it might block off the two oil ports. Guess I'll find out. Time to dust off the old mountain bike and pedal my *** to the store. GF is out of town.

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post #10 of 20 Old 07-08-2019, 03:33 AM
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Aww man, This is not the kind of news I wanna hear when I'm about to do my crank seal as well. Darn leak ever since Valvoline changed my oil. Hope you're able to seal those gouges. Ouch.
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post #11 of 20 Old 07-08-2019, 07:20 AM
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Re: Crank end OD (timing sprocket ID)?

Are the gouges just on the part of the crank that rides in the seal? Are they deep enough to feel with your fingernail? You may be able to get some high grit wet/dry sandpaper and polish the scratches out using paint thinner as the wetting agent. Either way the oil pump has to come off which means the upper oil pan will need to come off. Then you can install the seal correctly..

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post #12 of 20 Old 07-08-2019, 07:33 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Crank end OD (timing sprocket ID)?

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Aww man, This is not the kind of news I wanna hear when I'm about to do my crank seal as well. Darn leak ever since Valvoline changed my oil. Hope you're able to seal those gouges. Ouch.
I used the same drill/screw method when I pulled the OEM seal and didn't have any problems. I think I just grabbed a crappy bit out of my drill index. It didn't want to bite into the steel face of the seal.
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post #13 of 20 Old 07-08-2019, 07:42 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Crank end OD (timing sprocket ID)?

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Are the gouges just on the part of the crank that rides in the seal? Are they deep enough to feel with your fingernail?
I'm not sure which part of the seal is the "important" part. The gouges are both near the back. It's difficult to get my head in there and get a really good look, but they might actually be behind the seal or just at the rear edge of it. One of them isn't that bad, but the other will flake off little pieces of a wooden q-tip if I run it over it with some force. I sanded the high spot down with some 1500 grit.

If I use the sleeve I'll need to get creative. The installation cup isn't deep enough.
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post #14 of 20 Old 07-08-2019, 03:21 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Crank end OD (timing sprocket ID)?

Ok, crisis over... hopefully. I ended up using the sleeve. I had to install it backwards to be able to peel the install flange off because it would be too wide if I didn't. Printed up another plastic tool to install it. Even with the flange removed it just barely fits. The sharp end of it hangs over the chamfered edge of the crank. This made it extremely difficult to get the seal on without it getting cut up. I "think" it survived. Ran it for about 10 minutes and didn't see any leaks. Only time will tell I guess.

The seal install tool I made worked great. Funny I was worried that would be my biggest problem. :/

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post #15 of 20 Old 07-08-2019, 08:32 PM
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Great. Hope it holds out. Doing mine this weekend. Wow you have a lot of rust down there.
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post #16 of 20 Old 07-09-2019, 01:49 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Crank end OD (timing sprocket ID)?

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Great. Hope it holds out. Doing mine this weekend. Wow you have a lot of rust down there.
That's the fate of a daily driver in the rust belt. The best you can do is pay for expensive udercoating every year, which I never did. It's actually not as rusty as I would expect considering all the winters it's been through. Usually by this point exhaust flanges/bolts and brake/fuel lines are rusted through.

At the least the entire passenger side is undercoated now from the oil leak. I guess I need a rear main seal leak now to coat the drivers side.

Good luck on your seal install. I'm sure you won't have half the drama I did. My tib and I have an understanding that I hate it and it hates me. It will be a glorious day when it's finally out of my life.
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post #17 of 20 Old 07-09-2019, 02:27 PM
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Re: Crank end OD (timing sprocket ID)?

How is the sleeve held on? If the clearance to the oil seal is too small when the crank flexes it could destroy the seal.

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post #18 of 20 Old 07-09-2019, 03:50 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Crank end OD (timing sprocket ID)?

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How is the sleeve held on? If the clearance to the oil seal is too small when the crank flexes it could destroy the seal.
Not sure what you mean. The sleeve is 9.5mm wide and the seal is only 6mm. Both ends are well clear of the seal. The sleeve is held on by a tight friction fit. It's thin enough that it's designed to be used with the original seal. Redi/Speedi sleeves wouldn't be as popular as they are if they weren't a reliable solution.

"Ultra-thin construction (0.1 inch / 0.25mm wall thickness) allows original seal size to be used with minimal additional lip loading"
https://www.fmmotorparts.com/fmstore...5#.XSTu--TsZ9A
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post #19 of 20 Old Yesterday, 10:33 AM
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Re: Crank end OD (timing sprocket ID)?

I got nothing technical to add, but just wanted to say I'm glad you're out of the woods.

One of those jobs that goes from bad to worse. Woof. Glad you're back on the road!
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post #20 of 20 Old Yesterday, 05:16 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Crank end OD (timing sprocket ID)?

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I got nothing technical to add, but just wanted to say I'm glad you're out of the woods.

One of those jobs that goes from bad to worse. Woof. Glad you're back on the road!
Thanks. So far so good. Every year for last few years I keep saying "I just need one more year out of it". I think this is finally it (says increasingly nervous man for the 1000th time). Inspection is due by March next year and hopefully I won't be getting it renewed even though there's nothing currently that would keep it from passing. Life just keeps throwing financial curveballs. Looking to pick up a 2013-2014 Subaru Legacy 6spd since those were the last years with a manual.
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