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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm trying to find a reliable A/F controller for my turbo setup. I'm currently running an Apexi SAFC and i have had nothing but problems with it since i put it in. I've seen a lot of people mention an AEM FIC which sounds promising but i don't have a large budget.

Just looking for some advice on a good A/F tuner. I'm currently running a .60 T3/T4 with FM, 250cc injectors and Zt-2 wideband datalogging. I have many other mods but those should be the only ones related to A/F management.
 

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For real. I ran the Neo for a couple years of boost with no issues.
I recently sold the Neo and got a AEM FIC that I have yet to install.
No real reason why I'm going this route, I just got a good deal for the FIC so I figured I'd give it a shot.

Good Luck Though
 

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I don't know what size injectors you were running as stock, but you report that you use 250 cc injectors. I believe that the AEM FIC can compensate for that and tell your ECU it's running stock injector sizes when it's not. I don't think that the Neo can do that. Just throwing this out there, probably better off letting someone who knows for sure.
 

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Just so everyone understands me.
I'm not saying the Neo is the best and beats the FIC, I'm just saying that from my experiance with it I never had a problem with it.
It seems the OP is having issues with it so he may consider changing.


Laterz
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I don't know what size injectors you were running as stock, but you report that you use 250 cc injectors. I believe that the AEM FIC can compensate for that and tell your ECU it's running stock injector sizes when it's not. I don't think that the Neo can do that. Just throwing this out there, probably better off letting someone who knows for sure.
Correction, i was running 290's. I don't know what size the stock injectors are, but i heard 290's were good for a low boost setup. i wanted the neo to control the a/f ratios with the extra air and fuel from the turbo and injectors (its job). However, it didn't seem to be working correctly and i wanted ideas on better options.
 

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Stock are 190.
 

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What is your problem exactly when tuning with the neo ?

You have to keep in mind that you're tuning by modifying the MAF signal, with the neo. That signal is a 0 to 5V, it gives the "load" information to the ECU. Fuel injection and ignition are directly linked to that signal. If you modify it, you will get a different AFR. So it works - or it's not wired correctly.

Then, you have to understand the limits of that system :
- If you bring the signal to 0 or 5V, the ECU will not like it,
- At a certain value, the MAF gets "pegged". The ECU is not programmed to handle that value and beyond, it will either cut fuel or go back in closed loop mode, bringing you to 14.7 AFR. Generally that value is around 4.7 V on our tibs. So don't be surprised if, by increasing the MAF voltage at high rpms, you get very lean AFR. You may have pegged the MAF. At high rpms and high load, if you have to increase that value beyond 4.7V because your AFR is a bit too lean, then stop and buy bigger injectors. Your MAF must never go beyond that 4,7V. You'll certainly need a MAF clamp, or fuel cut defender (cheap on ebay). Those boxes will keep your max MAF value at 4,7V when it wants to go higher.
- By modifying that signal, you are also modifying ignition. At WOT, the ECU will retard ignition when load is incresing. If you reduce that load signal, you stay with a high ignition advance. Good for hp, bad for reliability. Very bad with boost.

With the ZT2, you have an excellent datalogger, with user inputs. Considering you're tuning by modifying the MAF signal, the best thing to do would be to tap your ZT2's user input in the MAF wire. Thus you'll be able to monitor and log your MAF signal.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
What is your problem exactly when tuning with the neo ?

You have to keep in mind that you're tuning by modifying the MAF signal, with the neo. That signal is a 0 to 5V, it gives the "load" information to the ECU. Fuel injection and ignition are directly linked to that signal. If you modify it, you will get a different AFR. So it works - or it's not wired correctly.

Then, you have to understand the limits of that system :
- If you bring the signal to 0 or 5V, the ECU will not like it,
- At a certain value, the MAF gets "pegged". The ECU is not programmed to handle that value and beyond, it will either cut fuel or go back in closed loop mode, bringing you to 14.7 AFR. Generally that value is around 4.7 V on our tibs. So don't be surprised if, by increasing the MAF voltage at high rpms, you get very lean AFR. You may have pegged the MAF. At high rpms and high load, if you have to increase that value beyond 4.7V because your AFR is a bit too lean, then stop and buy bigger injectors. Your MAF must never go beyond that 4,7V. You'll certainly need a MAF clamp, or fuel cut defender (cheap on ebay). Those boxes will keep your max MAF value at 4,7V when it wants to go higher.
- By modifying that signal, you are also modifying ignition. At WOT, the ECU will retard ignition when load is incresing. If you reduce that load signal, you stay with a high ignition advance. Good for hp, bad for reliability. Very bad with boost.

With the ZT2, you have an excellent datalogger, with user inputs. Considering you're tuning by modifying the MAF signal, the best thing to do would be to tap your ZT2's user input in the MAF wire. Thus you'll be able to monitor and log your MAF signal.
While i had the Neo installed, i would run into random issues that i couldn't explain; cels, improper driving, unresponsive a/f changes, etc. Wiring has been checked many times. Uninstalled and reinstalled numerous times. The wiring is correct. I believe the Neo unit itself is faulty.

I would occasionally receive a low voltage MAF CEL. Removing the Neo would fix this. With the neo installed you could unplug the maf and there would be no change, so the car was basically running without a maf signal. All wiring was soldered or had but connectors. This also, was checked multiple times. When i didn't have a CEL, using the Zt2 datalogger i would attempt to make passes and tune with the neo. Never saw any noticeable changes. No matter how drastic the values were changed. Sounds to me like the neo was intercepting the maf signal, sometimes sending the correct one back, but never any altered values.

With the neo uninstalled, maf works perfectly.
 

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the AEM FIC will "CLAMP" your maf so it will not be overrun. Thats the big reason why i bought it. i set my clamp at 4.0V. absolutely love the fic but if your not good at wiring it can be a challenge. whats even more challenging is the fact u barely have any harness to work with. with boost you need to reatrd ignition timing also and the fic can control that. VERY easy to use as well. if you check them out on ebay there pretty cheep. its where i bought mine and it worked perfect. just be patient and wait for a good deal. If you plan on going bigger, and bigger, and bigger with your setup, the fic is a must! I ran a SAFC-2 so ive been exactly where you are. headache after headache. very bad for your motor with the whole timing adjustment deal too.
 
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