Hyundai Tiburon Forums banner

1 - 9 of 9 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,994 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
just trying to get an input of how a good dyno shop tunes...
only been to one and i've had bad experience, not sure if its just me...
pretty much wanting to know how a real good tuner place operates.

the one i went to i:

-asked them to tune my car: they ran the car in the dyno and asked me to adjust the fuel based on the output?!? i was hoping i would get tips on how to properly adjust fuel, if i would have known that i would have kept my wide band and made few runs.

-asked them my car stutters at start up take off and see if they can fix that: they told me it would take weeks of messing around with the a/f to get it to take off right...so it was up to me if i wanted to fix that (could take weeks he said) lol

-told them to see if my car was in open loop so i can adjust the fuel properly: got ignored and was told to adjust across the board

-couldn't get a good read on my rpm

-my a/f were everwhere

-left with less horsepower than expected and car feels slower than when i came in.

-supercharger quit screaming after 2nd pull

-was told my car was running lean at 11.0 a/f so i needed to dump more fuel in those spots

-was told 10.8 is where i need to be

-they didn't mess with timing, i remember NGM pulling up to -22 on timing when they were tuning the enforcer.

-bunch of other funny stuff... lol

well not trying to put them down, they did have a great customer service, but idk if they even mess with imports.,
plus i had issue with my belt slipping, also i was the one adjusting the map..lol i'm an amateur..

this doesn't seem like a normal place to tune?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,088 Posts
Ok, it seems like you don't understand the basics of Dyno Tuning and run the risk of blowing your motor so I will try to help you out.

First, some basic things to understand. Dynamometer Types.

1) Most common is a Dynojet. Dynojets have large drum rollers that your car sits on. These rollers have a certain weight. How fast your car can spin the rollers is what is used to calculate your wheel torque. This number is then used to calculate on the fly what your wheel horsepower is. Dynojets typically are not good for tuning as they typically don't have the ability to load the rollers to simulate anything other than wide open throttle.

2) Mustang Dyno - Mustang dynos use rollers like a dynojet but they are MUCH smaller and are connected to what is called a Eddy Brake. Torque is measured not by the weight of the rollers but how fast the car can spin the brake. Most of your portable dynos will be Mustang dynos because they are small and easy to transport. Every Mustang dyno I've seen is painted a trademark blue color. Mustang dynos are great for tuning because they can simulate 99.9% of the driving conditions you will see. They are sometimes refered to as loaded dynos.

3) Dyna Pack Dyno - Sometimes called hub dynos. These are another type of loaded dyno and great for tuning, but instead of rollers they connect directly to your hubs. There are no rollers.

Loaded dynos are the best for tuning but are very easy to configure wrong which will either show numbers higher or lower than a dynojet. Dynojets are much harder to fudge with since the weight of the roller, which is static, is used in the torque calculation. This is why most people looking for horsepower curves use a dynojet and use a loaded dyno for tuning.

Next is the type of dyno session you ask for. There are mainly 3 types. One is just a standard dyno run to measure power output. Typically you get 2-3 quick runs to see what your making. Second is self tune. This is where you rent the dyno at an hourly rate and you tune it yourself with an employee running the actual dyno. Third is where you rent the dyno per hour as well as pay a tuner per hour to tune your ride. Typically in the 3rd scenario your not allowed to even be in the car for insurance reasons while the tuner tunes.
If he was having you tune the FIC but telling you what to enter then that's kind of a 4th way. That way he's not responsible if you blow your engine because he wasn't inputting the numbers. Kind of shady to me. Plus it makes the tuner sound like he wasn't familiar with the FIC to begin with.

Lastly, if you couldn't get a stable RPM signal I would have left right there. No way you can really tune if you can't get a good RPM signal. How the hell are you supposed to no where to add or subtract fuel?

I don't recall every seeing anything about NGM subtracting 22 degrees of timing. That would be just stupid!! If your at 10psi and below you probably won't need to subtract any timing, but without a good RPM signal how would you even know where to subtract? Oh and a good tuner would have his own OBD scanner to monitor the timing advance to watch for knock.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,994 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
yea i kinda figured i was in the wrong place...
thanks for the help!
BTW on the timing, i have -1degree for every lbs of boost, should i take that out?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
418 Posts
You are probably loosing some power due to that amount of pulled timing. at 10psi your going to have -10 degrees and thats a lot. I don't think I have ever gone more than -5 degrees even at over 20psi on a turbo. I would at least do like -0.4 or -0.5 timing per boost, but it may not even be necessary to subtract any at all. I would watch this though with an OBDII reader or something to make sure you don't destroy anything
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
878 Posts
I am not pulling any timing and I get 11 to 12 lbs of boost, depends on the air temp.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,994 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
lol.......dang...well i took some timing out and car pulls much better....
planning on ordering another wideband soon so i'll just tune it myself again//
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,304 Posts
Yea, sounds like you had a bad experience. For my dyno tune with a P0werAxel tuner (Korean tuner who specializes in Hyundai cars), it started with a street tune with me driving and him making corrections on his laptop thru real-time ECU hacking, followed later by a dyno tune where he was advancing timing/checking for knocks/reading the O2 sensor readings, etc.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,656 Posts
I agree that if the operator couldn't read rpm, that's when you turn and leave! Ideally, the best set up would have an OBD2 hook up, you can get rpm, engine temp, timing, and damn near any thing else readable from the ECU. Unless the tuner you are using has timing adjustability, there is no way for your 'tuner' to adjust it, A/F can be measured from the tail pipe with a sniffer, but this can be hit and miss, I've had pretty good luck this way, BUT for critical tuning, and bung welded into the exhaust is really the correct way to get a proper tune
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,994 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I agree that if the operator couldn't read rpm, that's when you turn and leave! Ideally, the best set up would have an OBD2 hook up, you can get rpm, engine temp, timing, and damn near any thing else readable from the ECU. Unless the tuner you are using has timing adjustability, there is no way for your 'tuner' to adjust it, A/F can be measured from the tail pipe with a sniffer, but this can be hit and miss, I've had pretty good luck this way, BUT for critical tuning, and bung welded into the exhaust is really the correct way to get a proper tune
well i was planning on taking your advice about leaving if they couldn't read my rpm right, but when i got there it seemed as if my rpm was being read....but after several pulls i began to notice that the rpm on the dyno would show 8900 and i was like that ain't right...lol
anyways i am going to try and find another dyno, if i don't sell the kit..
 
1 - 9 of 9 Posts
Top