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Discussion Starter #1
I can't seem to remember how all this works....the tein SS dampners have a listed front spring rate of 8/448 and rear of 5/280. that is all that is listed under a column titled "kgf/mm,lbs/in"
I thought that that number was the spring rate in lbs/in. But from the title is appears that the first number is kgf/mm and the second lbs/in.

The kposrts on the other hand are just listed as "spring rates," with front being 7/392 and rear at
5/280.

I was trying to find which coilover had slightly softer spring rates for daily driving and long kidney life. But now i confused myself....well the way these are listed did anyway. Obviously the rears are the same....but which is softer for the front? I also found that Tein sells replacment springs for our coilover application with a fairly broad range of rates....

Max/Min(kgf/mm-lbs/in)
+2.0 / +110.0 to -2.0 / -110.0

anyone have any insight?
 

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Yeah,
the teins require 448 lb's to compress the front spring 1 inch.
The ksports require 392 lbs to compress the front spring 1 inch.
That means the ksports are softer in the front. this also means the ksports will offer less understeer because the rear will be stiffer in comparison to the front as compared to the teins.
The ksports also have another advantage to them.....spring preload adjustment. With the teins you add preload to raise the car. (if you ask me that's the worst idea on the face of the planet. the lower you go, the stiffer your suspension has to be to avoid bottoming out. and when ya raise it up for winter driving or whatever its gonna be solid as a rock.) The kspec coilovers will let you setup your preload so the front and rear are well balanced. then you can set your ride height seperate from that. BE AWARE, the kspecs are gonna be a little more work to get setup right. If you dont like to tinker a little, the teins may be for you.
Just food for thought...and of course my opinions.
As far as spring rates go, ya shouldnt need them with the ksports due to the adjustable preload......unless they are too stiff for your needs.
 

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JDOGG said:
Yeah,
the teins require 448 lb's to compress the front spring 1 inch.
The ksports require 392 lbs to compress the front spring 1 inch.
That means the ksports are softer in the front. this also means the ksports will offer less understeer because the rear will be stiffer in comparison to the front as compared to the teins.
The ksports also have another advantage to them.....spring preload adjustment. With the teins you add preload to raise the car. (if you ask me that's the worst idea on the face of the planet. the lower you go, the stiffer your suspension has to be to avoid bottoming out. and when ya raise it up for winter driving or whatever its gonna be solid as a rock.) The kspec coilovers will let you setup your preload so the front and rear are well balanced. then you can set your ride height seperate from that. BE AWARE, the kspecs are gonna be a little more work to get setup right. If you dont like to tinker a little, the teins may be for you.
Just food for thought...and of course my opinions.
As far as spring rates go, ya shouldnt need them with the ksports due to the adjustable preload......unless they are too stiff for your needs.
So compressing the spring on the ksprots will lower the car, but also increase the spring rate if I read that correct?

Funny, because everyone has said that the ksports were stiffer than the teins, but the original post shows the numbers are opposite.
 

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Nope,
The ksports have an adjustment for spring preload....this makes the springs stiffer.
AND they have a ride height adjustment collar. this raises or lowers the car. so you can have a stiff low setup or a soft high setup that is not available with the teins.
 

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JDOGG said:
Nope,
The ksports have an adjustment for spring preload....this makes the springs stiffer.
AND they have a ride height adjustment collar. this raises or lowers the car. so you can have a stiff low setup or a soft high setup that is not available with the teins.
Yes I know they have 2 adjustment points, the lower mount and the shock collar.

What I am saying is you can still lower the car by adjusting the shock collar (to compress the spring), but by doing so you are also increasing the spring rate. You are also losing suspension travel if you choose to adjust it this way.
 

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Its the other way around. As you compress the spring the car raises. It adds more preload to the spring in the shocks fully extended position. it therefore acts as a stiffer spring and compresses less when the weight of the vehicle is applied causing the car to sit higher. What i was trying to say is. with the kspec's you can set your preload very light and adjust the ride hight with the lower mount to get a car with a lower stance and softer spring. the teins only have preload adjustment so the higher you go the stiffer you go.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Malogus said:
So compressing the spring on the ksprots will lower the car, but also increase the spring rate if I read that correct?

Funny, because everyone has said that the ksports were stiffer than the teins, but the original post shows the numbers are opposite.
Thats what i was getting...but from what he said the kports require only 392 lbs while the tein require 448, making them stiffer. unless of course you bought a softer replacment spring for the teins.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
alright well that makes sense so the first number in 5/280 is the spring rate in Kgf/mm and the second is in Lbs/in that makes sense their way of listing it just confused what i thought i knew.

So the stiffness (spring rate) of the ksports can be adjusted by preloading the spring, aka moving the shock collar up..which compresses the spring....when the shock is fully extended....

but if the shock isn't fully extended all that would do is lift the car up right?

and that means you can stiffen the spring (raise preload) but you can only soften down to the springs actually rate...right?
 

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Yeah, i meant ksports. basicly you can stiffen the springs by adding preload. but once you're at zero preload you cant make them any softer. so yeah that's rite. That's where im at with my Quest coilovers they're just too stiff for daily driving so i got em at zero preload and its still a bit much.

So the stiffness (spring rate) of the ksports can be adjusted by preloading the spring, aka moving the shock collar up..which compresses the spring....when the shock is fully extended....
but if the shock isn't fully extended all that would do is lift the car up right?

I went thru the same thought process when i bought my quest coilovers
you have to think of it as this, when the shock is fully extended and you add preload to the spring the spring becomes more preloaded and therefore acts like a stiffer spring. now reguardless of how much preload is on the spring the car will always apply a certain ammount of weight to the shocks when it is taken off the lift. when there is more preload the same ammount of force is applied by the weight of the car to the spring but it compresses less because it is already compressed by the preload. it therefore makes the car sit higher but only because it is acting like a stiffer spring. Its like having 2 springs of the same length and differant rates. if you put the same weight on the 2 springs the soft one is going to compress more than the stiff one. do ya follow me?
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Malogus said:
no, 5 is kgf.mm and 280 is lbs/in
that is what i said....
 

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Discussion Starter #13
ya i follow...the teins suck balls and the ksports are the way to go.....what are the rates on the quest coilovers?
 

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7K front and 4K rear. They can be purchased from kspec.com for about 1300 bux. I purchased my set from ebay from a local seller for about 600 or 700 plus shipping. but they were labeled as quest / mookeny / mk1 coilovers. looks like exactly the same thing tho.
 

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I'm not sure where you guys are sourcing your information to say that Teins suck.

JDOGG said:
Nope,
The ksports have an adjustment for spring preload....this makes the springs stiffer.
AND they have a ride height adjustment collar. this raises or lowers the car. so you can have a stiff low setup or a soft high setup that is not available with the teins.
Are you trying to imply that Teins don't offer ride height adjustability?
 

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TRiBaL said:
I'm not sure where you guys are sourcing your information to say that Teins suck.


Are you trying to imply that Teins don't offer ride height adjustability?
I still think JDOGG is a bit off, but his reasoning seems justified. He is saying that adjusting the shock collar only changes the spring preload, doesn't change the ride height. I tend to agree, because I effectively compressed my spring by raising the adjustable spring mount, which i thought would lower the car. In fact, it seemed like the car was raised.....

But I also know that there are tons of kits that have adjustable ride height and dont use adjustable lower mounts (I believe lthe teins are like this), and they use the adjustable spring mounts only. I know groundsport uses the same thing as well.

So I guess no i am confused, because it seems like I understand the concept, but what JDOGG is saying is the opposite of how I thought things worked, and throgh trial and error on my own car, it seems to agree with what he is saying....
 

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Im a little confused, i have found that raising the preaload has never yeilded a "less bumpy" ride. also, you should have the car counter weighted once its all set up, not half way through. as your adjusting the preload etc everything shfits a tiny bit. other than that it's a good article.

Im not saying the teins are garbage. Im just identifying what i see as major positive of the ksports vs the teins. in a sense no the teins dont have ride height adjustability, they only have preload adjustability. when you stiffen the spring, the weight of the car causes the suspension to compress less. the car therefore sits higher. some coilover companys claim this to be ride height adjustment. In reality, its just a byproduct of preload adjustment. I belive it is required by law that the spring in any shock system must have some preload when the shock is in the fully extended position. this is so if your car gets airborne/any other time the suspension is at full travel, the spring cannot fall out of the seat and rattle around and cause problems when/if you land. Because of this you have to look at adjusting that spring collar as if the shock was at full stroke. now when you adjust that collar nothing moves. the spring just gets wound tighter / becomes stiffer. you have not changed anything about the ride height of the shock or changed its stroke length or changed anything. you've basicly put in a stiffer spring. if you put a 10lb weight on a spring that has a spring rate of 10lbs/inch your spring is going to compress exactly 1 inch. if you put that same 10 lbs of force on a spring with a rate of 20lbs/inch the spring is going to compress 1/2 inch. that's what's happening here.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
alright...but taking into account the price difference in between the ksports and teins....and from what you said (and it seems very logical to me) the obvious advantage the ksports have....then no one in their right mind should be buying the teins....unless they absolutly must have a name brand or the EDFC.

that is why i say they suck......

on a side note...Patrick, can you give me a ride so i can feel the ride quality before i buy the coilovers.
 
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