[orlando2513]

Hello! It is my post in the forum, I am from Costa Rica and I see that many people know about the tuning of these cars.

I have a car that when it reaches high rpm with 7 psi of turbo starts to sound knocking detonations, I understand that it is because the ignition timing is very advanced (it is factory) and the problem is that this ECU does not have a Knock sensor that adjust the time so i have to correct it myself somehow

The car has FIC6 I know it's a bit obsolete ecu but it works, the problem is that like many people I can't delay the ignition time more than -2 because the OEM ecu seems to get scared

Another option that I thought of is to place a fixed resistance to the IAT sensor that simulates a very cold or very hot air temperature to see if I can correct it, but I do not know the optimal value of the resistance to achieve this.

The OEM ecu is not from tiburon, it is from accent 1.3L based on MAP.
Speaking of MAP it is not a problem because it is limited to 4.7 to avoid scaring the ECU under boost

With the above, can anyone give me some advice? Has anyone managed to delay time with FIC6 in these cars? any resistance value for IAT that you can advise me for this purpose?

Thanks in advance if you can help me

 

[chase206]

FIC6 can indeed delay timing. It cannot advance timing though. The problem with the FIC6 is that it's old technology and not really supported any more. If you can find a FIC6 it's likely going to be a fake or damaged. You do not want to play with the IAT temps. It can affect fuel delivery. Yes it can delay ignition timing but it may cause other unwanted effects from the ECU trying to preserve the engine from detonation.

Why are you using an Accent ECU instead of a SIMK41 MAP based Tiburon ECU? Do you have pictures of your Accent ECU inside and out? I'd be interested in seeing what type of memory chip it contains. You may be able to use the chiptuning method from the 1990s and early 2000s. The ignition maps are relatively easy to find in the hex code of most ECUs and you could potentially tune it out. While we don't understand much about the SIMK41 ECU yet, it is easily tune-able with a little bit of effort like I have done here:

It would be possible to read/write a socketed memory chip to achieve the results you want. If you share some pictures of your ECU I can help point you in the right direction.

 

[orlando2513]

FIC6 can indeed delay timing. It cannot advance timing though. The problem with the FIC6 is that it's old technology and not really supported any more. If you can find a FIC6 it's likely going to be a fake or damaged. You do not want to play with the IAT temps. It can affect fuel delivery. Yes it can delay ignition timing but it may cause other unwanted effects from the ECU trying to preserve the engine from detonation.

Why are you using an Accent ECU instead of a SIMK41 MAP based Tiburon ECU? Do you have pictures of your Accent ECU inside and out? I'd be interested in seeing what type of memory chip it contains. You may be able to use the chiptuning method from the 1990s and early 2000s. The ignition maps are relatively easy to find in the hex code of most ECUs and you could potentially tune it out. While we don't understand much about the SIMK41 ECU yet, it is easily tune-able with a little bit of effort like I have done here:

View attachment 138121

It would be possible to read/write a socketed memory chip to achieve the results you want. If you share some pictures of your ECU I can help point you in the right direction.

Hello, thanks for the answer, yes, the computer I use is even older, OEM code 3910022460, it happens that it is the second project of this type that I carry out, in my first project I used a computer that almost identifies this one but if it had a Knock sensor, no I understand this because it does not have it, in Costa Rica it is not easy to find information or tools to modify the maps of the original ECU of the hyundai, I am surprised by the work you did!

If I touch the IAT sensor and add more fuel accordingly it shouldn't be a problem because I can fix it with the FIC.

I know that the fic can delay the signal, which is actually advancing it, example: if at 4000 rpm the original advance is 30° then with fic I could delay the signal -5° so that the advance is 25° right? It is the theory that I handle but when trying to do it the engine gets stuck, I suppose that due to some error in the handling of the signal that FIC delivers.

The reason for using old ECUs is because I feel that they bother me less than the most modern OBD2 when handling with FIC6, otherwise it would be better to install something like aem standalone but for budget I don't do it.

 

[chase206]

Reading and writing the EEPROM is as simple as building a socket to relocate your memory and using an inexpensive EEPROM writer. I paid $120 USD for a Willem GQ-4X4 and PSOP44 adapter to write this ECU. There are other EEPROM writers that are less expensive and more common. I wrote a little bit about the chiptuning method on a 2.7L that shows how to relocate and read/write:

Chiptuning the GK 2.7 ECM – Chase

chase.cc

The FIC6 should be more than sufficient to delay ignition timing. We have been successful doing so with both 2.0 and 2.7 over the years.

Are you intercepting the ignition outputs? Do you have an external ignition module? Do you have a diagram that shows how you wired the FIC6 into your harness so we have a better understanding of how you are tapping or intercepting signals?

 

[orlando2513]

Reading and writing the EEPROM is as simple as building a socket to relocate your memory and using an inexpensive EEPROM writer. I paid $120 USD for a Willem GQ-4X4 and PSOP44 adapter to write this ECU. There are other EEPROM writers that are less expensive and more common. I wrote a little bit about the chiptuning method on a 2.7L that shows how to relocate and read/write:

Chiptuning the GK 2.7 ECM – Chase

chase.cc

The FIC6 should be more than sufficient to delay ignition timing. We have been successful doing so with both 2.0 and 2.7 over the years.

Are you intercepting the ignition outputs? Do you have an external ignition module? Do you have a diagram that shows how you wired the FIC6 into your harness so we have a better understanding of how you are tapping or intercepting signals?

I read your article and I find it fascinating, the truth is that I don't think I have the knowledge to replicate something like that, but for now I appreciate any help from you.

I do not have a diagram but if I am intercepting the signal of the 4 injectors, cam sensor, crankshaft sensor, map sensor (on the MAF line for voltage limiting only), and I touch the TPS, the o2 I do not use, all the connections as specified in the FIC6 manual

I use the lines: CRK MAGI +, CRK MAGI -, CRK MAGO + and CAM1 HALI +, CAM1 HALO +

I have no external module I use the OEM coil pack

If I have the connections right, the only option I see is to cheat the IAT sensor, maybe FIC6 has some damage or these ECUs do not work well with FIC, by any chance do you have the IAT compensation map of the ignition of the 2.7 v6 ECU? I know it won't be the same as the ECU I'm using but at least it can give me an idea of what temperature value I should look for to get a little less ignition advance and thus avoid knocking

 

[chase206]

I don't have the IAT compensation table mapped out yet. I do have the IAT voltage to temperature map though! If you wanted to trick the IAT you will need to reduce resistance by adding a resistor in parallel with the IAT sensor. Are you certain the IAT is the same on the original 1.3L as it is on the 2.0L? If so you can use some of this data from the 2.7L

Some of the resistances that I dropped in place of the IAT and what I recorded from OBD2 are as follows:

I'll take a look over your wiring and compare it to the 2.0 and 2.7 and give you my opinion.

 

[chase206]

I believe that you need to intercept the crank and cam signals to delay ignition timing. Per your notes you have already done that. For example this is the pinout and intercept/tap diagram for the BETA:

Which version of the AEM FIC6 do you have? Which firmware version are you using? There is a difference between the HALL and MAG type crank signals and they're not interchangeable. Another member reported a problem with intercepting vs tapping the crank and cam signals. He had to switch from intercept to tap which removes the possibility of delaying the ignition signal. The 1.3L ECU may also have an issue as detailed here:

AEM FIC 6 wiring Update?

So this gem of a diagram was created by one or more of the members of NT around 2010 for the aem Fic 6. I will be installing this piggy back on my 07 i4..along with the aem uego wideband once i get my harness extension completed by this coming weekend. The only update that i have found for the...

www.newtiburon.com

Dropping a resistor in parallel with your IAT will artificially raise the temperature that the ECU sees so hopefully that delays enough timing for your boost level. If not, your only other option is to chiptune your current ECU or switch to a standalone ECU instead.

 

[orlando2513]

At the moment I intercept the lines and everything works fine as long as the initial map is at 0, the problem starts when adding some degrees to the map, I don't remember the firmware that I am using right now but according to what I read at least for hyundai ECUs It hardly affects the FW that we are using, does it?

Note that these old ECUs in the cables that go to some sensors have a metal mesh covering touching the ground, I suppose it is an insulator and that is why I do not have interference problems.

I have the voltage readings in relation to IAT temperatures (I took them from the workshop manual) what I don't know is what is the best temperature to simulate, that is, at what temperature does the ECU make the greatest compensation of the ignition advance

Do you mean that the hotter the air is in theory the ECU will have less ignition advance? I thought it was the other way around, that is, I thought I would have to simulate some cold temperature, even -0°

 

[chase206]

The firmware version may cause issues depending on a few factors. I remember reading a few instances where either the 2.0 or 2.7 had issues on one version, but were fixed on a newer version. I don't remember which version was recommended for either engine as the best to use.

I'm reading that the 2.0 beta is a HALL effect sensor so if you have the wrong AEM FIC6 it may be spoofing an incorrect crank signal to delay timing. I noticed you named your crank sensor wires "MAG" which may indicate you have the wrong FIC6. You may not be able to use the ignition timing modifier feature with the MAG based FIC6 as a result. The two versions that were available were the AEM 30-1910 and 30-1911 and were often confused for each other. The 30-1910 is a HALL effect version and the 30-1911 is the MAG reluctor version.

The best temperature to simulate from the start is the maximum value to pull ignition timing as far as possible. On the 2.7 that would be 0.665V at 120 Celcius or approximately 100-120 ohms. Then monitor your OBD2 live data to see what it reports your ignition timing is at each simulated IAT temperature. I'm not sure if you have OBD2 available on the older 1.3L ECU, but on the 2.0 and 2.7 Siemens ECUs we can view the ECU's target ignition timing over OBD2. The strategy from the Hyundai factory was to pull or delay timing if the IAT gets too hot. This is due to the high volatility of the air/fuel mixture at hotter temperatures. This means that the fuel burns faster reaching peak cylinder pressure earlier in the power stroke. To ensure that peak cylinder pressure occurs at the optimal 15-20 degrees after top dead center, the ECU must delay timing a few degrees to compensate for the hotter IATs.

Here is a response in a forum for an unrelated car, but the same strategy applies. The general rule is for every 10F (5.5C) above operating temperature 193F (90C), delay ignition timing by 1 degree.

IATs VS Ignition advance angle

Hi, How should the logic be, the colder the IAT the more or less ignition advance? Although most people say it should need more ign advance, I have yet to hear from someone that has tested it on a dyno to see if it gains torque or stays away from det. I was thinking maybe since colder IAT is more...

forums.linkecu.com

You may be lucky and the OEM 1.3L strategy is to delay timing by 1 degree for every 10F (5.5C) above the operating temperature. I don't have any data that proves this so you will have to test these values yourself and measure the results.

 

[orlando2513]

The old ECU that I am using has the HALL cam sensor but the magnetic crankshaft sensor, I know because it does not have a 12v power cable, maybe in a more modern version they changed to HALL and that is why they do not have problems with the map of ignition.

The information you gave me is very important to me, I had the concept wrong in my mind, now I understand it well, thanks for this information, I tried to search but I did not find anything related to it, I think that nobody wants to complicate their life like me cheating an IAT hehe

I will try simulating progressively higher temperatures to the point of being able to eliminate the knocking, I will give news of the result, thanks!