Hyundai Tiburon Forums banner

221 - 240 of 295 Posts

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
4,539 Posts
Discussion Starter #221
Looks like a long but productive weekend.
For your glue notches, is that a cutoff wheel?

As to the parts, are you st covering what you have, or are you going to make a mold and lay final material in that?
Sounds like you're going to cover what you have.
I am not entirely sure if this is the correct name for it, but I have always referred to it as an angle grinder. Extremely convenient tool for this project.

Yes, I am adding CF overtop of the printed parts, which will be blended into the existing bumper cover using the 3M adhesive as filler. That is why I have sanded down the bumper the areas as I have done, since the 3M adhesive is not intended to be used on paint, and additionally required the polyolefin adhesion promoter to bond to the pure PP+EPDM, even. For this project I have decided not to take the mold approach, however I have made considerations to do so for a future project, but I'd be getting a bit ahead of myself to expand on that now lol.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
4,539 Posts
Discussion Starter #222 (Edited)
Alright an update! But a short one. My weekend was cut short so here's what I got done in one days' work:

I printed a few pieces to complete the rear extractors and therefore be on my way to finish the rear bumper entirely. This pink piece here will be adhered to the bumper cover, it will help retain the shape by reinforcing this area. This is the last piece to be permanently part of the rear bumper cover:



You can see this piece is also making way for how I should adjust the curvature following after it. so I made a cut into the bumper cover and adjusted the curvature to be tighter around the bumper corner. It's not done yet as seen in these photos, I will be pressing in this area a bit more. This tighter curvature really, really looks good. Expect to see that/why in my next update:



Immediately behind it would go this green extractor. The bumper cover will be painted red (duh) but I will layer carbon fiber on the inside of this extractor and leave the carbon exposed inside the extractor. The extractor then remains a separate piece that will be fastened in from behind, lined up with the pink piece:


You can see I applied painters tape on the corner:


This is so that I could have this profile here:


I laid on the very first layer with spray adhesive to keep it in position and to get a feel for it wrapping around the form. I then followed with applying 5 layers of CF cloth total to build up the surface height to be inline with the bumper cover:



I then went and did the same thing for the license plate area:


This is the first layer spray-glued into position:



Followed by the lay-up work:


Apologies for the slight odd order of things, but for the sake of time-efficiency I sometimes work on other things while another cures. So in the case of the license plate area I did the diffuser treatment at the same time as you can see in images above. I cut and positioned the rear fog light housing in the center first, and cut out the material behind it. Then, again using painters tape, I created a profile I was happy with to create cutouts to help alleviate any leftover unwanted air pressure underneath the car that would/could creep above what will be the flat underbody (not to mention it's gonna look excellent if you ask me lol)


Those openings, and even the fog light housing will remain relatively subtle because that entire diffuser area will be painted black, similar to how I had my car before this project. The fog light housing will be blended in and permanently part of the bumper cover.


After the CF had cured on the corners, I went ahead and secured the pink pieces to get them ready for adhesive. The opening/gap just after this piece where I cut the bumper cover (to adjust its curvature) will be pushed further in and closed up:



The last thing I could get started on that day was the area underneath the trunk. I made some measurements and made some adjustments for positioning the printed pieces here for what will become the final surface:


I'm really looking forward to finishing that detail as well, I think it will look very good.

Anyway, called it a night at 11pm and made the 2-hour drive back home.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
4,539 Posts
Discussion Starter #223 (Edited)
Had some decent progress made last weekend.

It all started with sanding:




Apart from sanding I finally got to make a surface curvature adjustment. The surface underneath the extractors wasn't looking quite right, and I knew why, so I got started on fixing that by cutting away excess material. I sanded the area near the cut to accept the adhesive that would hold it together:


You can see that otherwise, the area on this corner of the bumper hangs outward just a bit much.


I placed a piece of the bumper behind the cut, and screwed the area into position with it:


The rest of the process for this detail will be seen later in this update.


So, after making those cuts I got started on working on the horizontal surface area underneath the trunk:




After some many cuts and readjustments I got it into the position that I wanted it to be in.
The next step was to add a heavy layer of adhesive between the custom and the stock bumper sections. I did this not only to help secure the custom parts (but they were by no means unsecure) but also to reduce the amount of body filler otherwise needed to complete the surfaces. That said, unfortunately, the surface made up by the stock rear bumper underneath the tailights, underneath the custom corner sections, ie. where I cut it for the rear extractors, is not quite right; i.e. it's a little "flat" Might not be easy to see in the photos, but you can certainly feel it, would become obvious once glossy paint would go over it. And because I have gone as far as I have already with the adhesive, and carbon fiber, there wasn't much sense in taking it apart again; it can be fixed with filler; admittedly using more than I'd want to. Oh well, at least the rest of the bumper is in good standing, as I will demonstrate.

So, there it is, more adhesive added. Getting a little easier to start seeing the final form:







The fog light area looked like a total mess lol, with the cut up 3D-printed part, somewhat dyed red epoxy coating (long story lol; won't affect integrity), and screws to hold it in place while the adhesive had set. I am not proud of how that looks in this state here, but ultimately it doesn't matter because of what you're about to see next:


After this had cured, I went ahead and started laying the profiles with painters tape for cutting some more carbon fiber cloth.

 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
4,539 Posts
Discussion Starter #224
And boom we have more carbon


I especially like the exposed carbon on the area under the trunk... works really well to tie together the rear end overall:





The next step is fairly obvious, to cut open the area here to fit the light:





And next, I had to sand. A lot. A lot of sanding, got pretty tiring between sanding by hand with a sanding block and even using a power sander -- each method has their own advantages and were used accordingly. I took the bumper off to help this process. Now to help illustrate that this custom job is structurally sound: I lifted up the bumper with one hand, from the center cut-out I made in the licence plate area. You will recall that whole center section is a custom part. Anyway, I had no trouble carrying it around holding it only from there, with no alarming signs that this would fall apart. So with that I am happy.



How it looks from behind. A little funny, but when I have the time I will actually take the time to clean up and paint even the backside of the bumper. With my limited time, that just isn't a priority right now of course. Oh and fun fact: see the green-printed extractor air channel piece there? It eliminates the need of the metal brackets on the rear bumper... more to come on that in a later update.

 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
4,539 Posts
Discussion Starter #225 (Edited)
And now, the good stuff.




Yep, I laid some primer over the whole thing. I did this for a couple reasons, but honestly between the white bumper, black adhesive, and everything else being a different color or finish, it was hard to see where to lay filler next. Making it all primer helps that a lot, not to mention you can finally start to really see how it will look on the car overall. So excuse how rough it currently looks, everything will be smoothed out.









I also just love how compact our cars are. Even when compared to other compacts of the same era like the Golf here. That said, my 944 makes my Tiburon look like a boat by comparison. I feel like cars, or sports cars at least, these days, are just getting too big. I do understand why, but, ugh, I just prefer 'em slim and sexy :)

I couldn't help but to quickly make it red in photoshop. I like where it is going haha:


As mentioned earlier, I really liked having the horizontal portion under the trunk as exposed CF. And my photoshop above helps me confirm this is the direction I want to go, so I will work towards this even if it means even more work for me, again, lol. Also, with my recent experience and technique used to lay carbon fiber, I have become much more confident with it in terms of what I could do with it. Until now I was thinking to just paint the diffuser area black, similar to my previous bumper, but it honestly might even be easier to just lay carbon there instead. Which, arguably would look better as well, and may make things easier for integrating the actual rear diffuser I plan on installing.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
4,539 Posts
Discussion Starter #230 (Edited)
Just a recent thought: Well, not really that recent, but especially since working on the rear bumper this really isn't a lip kit anymore. I need to call it something else. 3D-Printed body kit? But that's only partially true.. More like custom auto body with 3D-Printed elements. Even the side skirts, while not drastically modifying the adjacent stock body, apart from cutting the quarter panels underneath the flares, will become a permanent part of the car as well. For the front, I have plans that will involve similar work like that of the rear bumper, but not as much. So hopefully that gets done quicker lol.

Apart from that, while I am away from my car during the week, I have been thinking about how I would like to pursue certain details to really finish off the exterior. I've had some rather unique (yet relatively simple) ideas in mind for the taillights, headlights, and front grille openings (I just ordered some mesh grille sheets). I'll have to sketch out or photoshop these ideas when I get the chance.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
4,539 Posts
Discussion Starter #231 (Edited)
Latest progress:

It was time for a break from the rear bumper and move onto the side skirts.

Once again using painters tape to get the profile:



The first layer was spray-glued into position:


And epoxy resin was applied:



That's about it on the side skirt for now, unfortunately I ran out of epoxy resin, and was running low on CF as well. Meant to pick up more on Saturday but the store was closed for Labour Day weekend, sigh. So, I spent the rest of my weekend doing something else productive but arguably less exciting. But, it had to be done anyway.

I went back to the damaged area from my accident, and stripped away surrounding paint with a wire wheel. The reason for this is to properly bond the adhesive I would be using. Until now I had these sections of the front frame merely (temporarily) bolted in place. With the advent of my research in auto body adhesives I have found that the 3M 08115 adhesive should adequately do the job here as opposed to welding. One might be hesitant with the thought of using adhesive to hold together structural components of a car (I know I was!), but believe it or not, especially modern vehicles made in the last decade or two, exclusively use this exact adhesive to hold on entire panels, including (but not limited to) entire quarter panels, in the production stage of a car. Our Tiburons have this stuff throughout the car as well, it's just not always easy to see because any excess is painted over.



I stripped away a relatively large section, not just the bonding surfaces. There is a reason for this explained later in this post.




Now, before I got to apply the adhesive I spent the entire Saturday evening aligning body panels. I did this once before when I first started this project last summer, but, I seemingly didn't do it well enough (or my fitment standards have become more strict). I cut and bent some key sections of this stripped metal, and as well adjusted the bumper brackets multiple times until the bumper, fenders, and headlights fit nicely. I had to fully secure and remove the front bumper about ten times as part of this process. Certainly tedious. But I will say this: Right now, the bumper merely has the front lip screwed onto it, with only one layer of fiberglass - I had yet to reinforce it from behind with more fiberglass. Anyway, I handled this bumper as if it were stock: I just picked it up from wherever, and often let it drop on the ground. No problems observed, the durability factor checks out 8)

The next day I did some quick final adjustments and then I was ready to adhere. A little hard to see, but there it is:


I suppose I might have forgotten this info or confused it with the other adhesive I was using the bumper, but I thought it would cure faster. The adhesive on the bumper, 3M 04240 (for bumpers, composites), hardens in like one minute. For whatever reason, I thought this adhesive, 3M 08115 (for metal, composites), would be somewhat similar in cure time. Turns out it took hours and hours to harden/cure. Which is good information to know lol. So in the meantime I was working on sanding the rear bumper while waiting for what would be the next step.

And that next step was to, similarly, adhere in this lower rad support bar. So again, had to strip some paint.




To ensure proper alignment, I went ahead and drilled some holes through the bar, and through the frame, so that I could use zip ties to hold it in place while it would cure.



That's what I call a project car. (This garage was clean before I arrived lol -- no worries, I always clean it up back to the state it was in when I am done at the end of the weekend)


Now, back to why I stripped so much paint off the main chassis. I did so at the area where I hammered the metal back into shape last year. This hammering method of course leaves countless little dents in the metal, not to mention this metal was completely crumpled from the accident. So "unfolding" that metal of course left some less-than-uniform results. I did try to smooth it out as much as I could with a hammer last year, and I think I got it to an overall adequate standing, but when this project would be done I didn't want to open my hood to a wrinkled area. After this exterior project, I do have plans for a shaved and partially-tucked engine bay anyway, so what I thought I'd do is lay the adhesive over the area, to act as a filler, and also smooth out other details. For example, I ground off some welded-in nuts which were intended to hold the washer reservoir and ABS module. Well, my ABS system is deleted minus the module, so I will be tucking that away anyway, and I have an idea for a washer fluid reservoir relocation as well.




Any exposed metal left over I sprayed with self-etching primer.

Anyway, that was that. Technically now my car is repaired, technically safe for use on road. From the collision, and changing out the control arm, obviously my alignment is way out of spec. And I would go so far as to suspect that my steering rack, or at least its tie rods (or similar) are damaged that is unnoticeable to the naked eye. I do happen to have a new steering rack. Prior to my accident I would replace parts of my car before they would even fail. In 2014, I suspected my steering rack was next on the list to need attention, even though the steering wheel's play was technically within spec, but by a small margin. So anyway, at the same time of pulling out my engine, and painting it, and the engine bay, I will as well then replace the rack, delete the power steering system fully, and do the timing belt (which I also have on-hand) all in one shot. Looking forward to that.

 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
8,625 Posts
Thanks for the progress reports, it's fun to watch.
Also gives others an idea of the work involved to make body bits.

For epoxy, most of what you're doing can be done in polyester resin. A lot cheaper and more available.

For aligning metal bits, look for Cleco clamps. Aircraft Spruce and other aviation suppliers sell them. Get the tool as well, trust me.

As a background, I work on aircraft composite (sailplanes.....CF, fiberglass, Kevlar, etc. but mostly refinishing) as well as aluminum sheet metal (Cleco clamps).
Pin type clamps.....https://www.rivetsonline.com/rivets/cleco-fasteners-temporary-rivetsside-grips?gclid=CjwKEAjw87PNBRDA_rHbypeJmFkSJADRcAivTTWMZ_V_UbxfufHtCKiS7nA0b7Xu8NGYrep7mZ5CjBoCtnPw_wcB

Congrats on your project as well as the updates, thanks.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
4,539 Posts
Discussion Starter #233 (Edited)
Thanks for the progress reports, it's fun to watch.
Also gives others an idea of the work involved to make body bits.

For epoxy, most of what you're doing can be done in polyester resin. A lot cheaper and more available.

For aligning metal bits, look for Cleco clamps. Aircraft Spruce and other aviation suppliers sell them. Get the tool as well, trust me.

As a background, I work on aircraft composite (sailplanes.....CF, fiberglass, Kevlar, etc. but mostly refinishing) as well as aluminum sheet metal (Cleco clamps).
Pin type clamps.....https://www.rivetsonline.com/rivets/cleco-fasteners-temporary-rivetsside-grips?gclid=CjwKEAjw87PNBRDA_rHbypeJmFkSJADRcAivTTWMZ_V_UbxfufHtCKiS7nA0b7Xu8NGYrep7mZ5CjBoCtnPw_wcB

Congrats on your project as well as the updates, thanks.
Thanks, I am glad it could be interesting! I will admit, sometimes I get a little tired of working on it (a lot of work, very little free time!), but after posting updates and seeing the progress visually even myself, that helps lol. It's very easy to get lost in a project; this thread helps to keep my mind organized. But yes, while I have always appreciated the kind of work autobody shops have been doing, this first-hand experience has broadened my appreciation for that of course. So many little details, so many variables and factors to consider in virtually any auto body aspect. To do it completely properly is certainly challenging.

Would polyester resin be the same one used with fiberglass kits? If so, I recall watching videos saying to avoid this with carbon fiber, and the solution would be to just use fiberglass instead of carbon fiber since a high enough quality fiberglass's properties are similar to CF for the purpose of autobody applications.

Thanks for the link! I must further look into these clamps..
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
8,625 Posts
Thanks, I am glad it could be interesting! I will admit, sometimes I get a little tired of working on it (a lot of work, very little free time!), but after posting updates and seeing the progress visually even myself, that helps lol. It's very easy to get lost in a project; this thread helps to keep my mind organized. But yes, while I have always appreciated the kind of work autobody shops have been doing, this first-hand experience has broadened my appreciation for that of course. So many little details, so many variables and factors to consider in virtually any auto body aspect. To do it completely properly is certainly challenging.

Would polyester resin be the same one used with fiberglass kits? If so, I recall watching videos saying to avoid this with carbon fiber, and the solution would be to just use fiberglass instead of carbon fiber since a high enough quality fiberglass's properties are similar to CF for the purpose of autobody applications.

Thanks for the link! I must further look into these clamps..
Start off with, "what is FRP?"
FRP is "fiberglass reinforced plastic"
You can use chopped fiberglass, fiberglass woven, Kevlar or CF.
The "plastic" can be either epoxy resin or polyester resin.

So......how structural is it? Sorta determines on what you use.
Also how much sunlight (which degrades strength) will it see?

For a body kit, basically no strength, maybe max sunlight.....paint helps in this (although I deal with gelcoat a lot which is opaque....whatever......).

Not picking on what you're doing, just giving some suggestions.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
4,539 Posts
Discussion Starter #235
Start off with, "what is FRP?"
FRP is "fiberglass reinforced plastic"
You can use chopped fiberglass, fiberglass woven, Kevlar or CF.
The "plastic" can be either epoxy resin or polyester resin.

So......how structural is it? Sorta determines on what you use.
Also how much sunlight (which degrades strength) will it see?

For a body kit, basically no strength, maybe max sunlight.....paint helps in this (although I deal with gelcoat a lot which is opaque....whatever......).

Not picking on what you're doing, just giving some suggestions.
hmm I suppose I have more research to do lol..
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
8,625 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
depending on the resin you can actually use the 3d printer resin to layer over cloth fiber glass. All fiber glass started as was layers of ace bandages and layers of two chemical epoxy (instead of three or more) mostly in surf boards where you shaped a wood board then coated it with a really thin layer of epoxy which is basically laquor or resin or clear coat.

For the parts if you are limited to small scale you could design them to have extended edges like snapping model airplanes together to build a larger shell, mold clay up against it and bake it in a hand built brick kiln very slowly to have a mold you can paint resin on with a paint brush. Add an air compressor and you can chill the resin out of the clay if you understand casting plastic parts. I built a lot of model airplanes and model rockets as a kid this way. Bricks are really cheap and gas kiln are cheap to make. Just don't bake the plastics without a permit that gas is dangerous.

Powdered metal and injection molding is how all the commercial parts are made so you can also learn how to make what would in essence be sheet metal parts as well using the same process, with a little bit more know how. You shape the part with porcelain, working in powdered metal from one of the hundreds of companies that make it for injection molding and then bake it in a kiln until all that is left is cherry red powdered metal, and then quenching with salts can be poured in from a inlet like the pyramid scenes with the sand. Then when it hits the correct temperature you pour water in to dissolve the salts, which drains out the bottom into a grease trap. I would not try it in a dense city but if you have more than just a patch of grass pretending to be a yard it is very much something with time and effort you can take what already looks very nice to the next level.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
4,539 Posts
Discussion Starter #238

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
4,539 Posts
Discussion Starter #239
depending on the resin you can actually use the 3d printer resin to layer over cloth fiber glass. All fiber glass started as was layers of ace bandages and layers of two chemical epoxy (instead of three or more) mostly in surf boards where you shaped a wood board then coated it with a really thin layer of epoxy which is basically laquor or resin or clear coat.

For the parts if you are limited to small scale you could design them to have extended edges like snapping model airplanes together to build a larger shell, mold clay up against it and bake it in a hand built brick kiln very slowly to have a mold you can paint resin on with a paint brush. Add an air compressor and you can chill the resin out of the clay if you understand casting plastic parts. I built a lot of model airplanes and model rockets as a kid this way. Bricks are really cheap and gas kiln are cheap to make. Just don't bake the plastics without a permit that gas is dangerous.

Powdered metal and injection molding is how all the commercial parts are made so you can also learn how to make what would in essence be sheet metal parts as well using the same process, with a little bit more know how. You shape the part with porcelain, working in powdered metal from one of the hundreds of companies that make it for injection molding and then bake it in a kiln until all that is left is cherry red powdered metal, and then quenching with salts can be poured in from a inlet like the pyramid scenes with the sand. Then when it hits the correct temperature you pour water in to dissolve the salts, which drains out the bottom into a grease trap. I would not try it in a dense city but if you have more than just a patch of grass pretending to be a yard it is very much something with time and effort you can take what already looks very nice to the next level.
Thanks for the insight, I will certainly take these things into consideration.

The thought has crossed my mind to use the 3D printer resin as the top coat, but I'd need to experiment to see how well this may work.

As for your other points, these are things that I will have to look into for future projects. Rest assured, I have countless other projects planned for my car still haha, not just this 3D-Printed body kit ;)
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
8,625 Posts
Thanks Charlie! That's very nice of you, I appreciate this thorough help!
NP, maybe it answers questions for you as well as others that may want to make parts. Hopefully they search.
>:D

Most of my FRP now is epoxy resin and CF or Kevlar for use in composite sailplanes (Google ASG-29, which I also fly). These get finished in a special Gelcoat as a surface finish you see.
On the wings, surface waves over about 3" is +/- 0.002", pretty small.

I used to use polyester resin and glass cloth to make parts for motorcycles. Things like fairings, fenders, etc.
 
221 - 240 of 295 Posts
Top