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Discussion Starter #1
is it possible to hit 230 (or high-mid 200) N/A whp from of an 06 SE?
 

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i doubt it but not sure. highest i've seen so far is round 210whp but who knows if it can get to 230. might be hard though.
 

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Extremely hard. Maybe if you get a stroker kit and bump up the displacement....
 

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yes it is possible, you are looking at ALOT of time and money. The guys who are reaching around 210 have not gotten into the bottom end (that i know of.) You could get the block bored, build to have a longer stroke, higher compression. By doing these it would be possible. Along with, cams, stage 4 IM, I/H/E, fuel tuner, blah blah blah and maybe ported heads.... You are looking at alot of money down the pooper just go F/I
 

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Waste. Of. Money. ITB's aren't all that great anyway. It makes much more sense to spend the money and go FI. NA is fun, but the power just isn't there.
 

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The boys running above 200 all have cam's etc but none have porting or high comp pistons. with a little loving in those 2 areas your almost a shoe in for 230 if not more.
 

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someone has around 210 whp and like 226wtq on a dyno jet without cams.... he has hotshot headers, cai, exhaust, stg. 4 IMs, pulleys, and probably a lightweight flywheel... So I don't know if he got cams if that would bump it up to around 220... I don't know. I would say stick with N/A if you want, since it's better for autox (and if you're boosted for those events you run with porsches and M3s), but if you just want straight line power then go F/I or get some NOS...
 

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hmmm... ITBs are great. every BMW M engine made has had them and they made great power per their displacement. just go to a motorcycle junkyard and grab the throttle bodies off of a couple of hayabusas and fab a manifold. its all in the tuning although you will have a higher than normal idle and a really responsive engine, than put on a turbo on it, now thats air flow! but make sure the cams are changed out if turbo is in the future, high lift and stock duration with no or little valve overlap is what a turbo loves.
 

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viva_brasil said:
someone has around 210 whp and like 226wtq on a dyno jet without cams.... he has hotshot headers, cai, exhaust, stg. 4 IMs, pulleys, and probably a lightweight flywheel... So I don't know if he got cams if that would bump it up to around 220... I don't know. I would say stick with N/A if you want, since it's better for autox (and if you're boosted for those events you run with porsches and M3s), but if you just want straight line power then go F/I or get some NOS...
Whoever that guy is, he is lying. I have yet to see anyone without cams go above 198 whp. And I have been on these boards for 4 years now.

Here are some answers:

1) 230 is near impossible NA
2) ITB is a waste of money. I did consider doing a dual TB design, as the stock IM's issue is feeding the furthest 2 cylinders with air. One TB on each side would help fix that. ITB would cost ALOT and not be worth it.
3) High compression pistons would also be EXPENSIVE as they don't make them as far as I know. It would be a custom job. You can't even easily shave the heads to raise compression, as you risk the timing belt slipping. You would have to get a custom tensioner to increase the timing belt tension (which I have seen on some motorcycles). This is because the heads are now shorter, yet the timing belt size remains the same.
4) Not sure you could do a stroker kit, because as far as I know the 2.7L is a stroked 2.5 already (but I could be wrong).
5) The only way I can see making more than 210 NA is possibly advancing the timing, and porting the heads with oversize valves. I just can't justify dropping $2000 into ported heads on my car, as it already has 75,000 miles.

I have pretty much every NA mod that exists for the tib as it stands, and I am only running about 210 (207 is my last official numbers, but I added a real ecu and have yet to have it tuned. I think i could hit 210 or so). The only other possible mod I could do is a bigger TB (right now I have a ported stocker), which could or could not help me. 210-215 is about the best you will get while staying in the range where NA is worth it. If you want more power than that, go f/i.

The only reason I have stayed NA is because this is my daily driver, and I don't want the maintenance hassle / risk of destroying my engine that seems to come when you boost an engine that isn't meant to run boost in the first place. I'm sure with a built block you are fine, but I just don't feel comfortable throwing a decent amount of boost on this engine for the long-run.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
thanks everyone! ill def have to think about this one..i appreciate the info :3_chubby:
 

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Hmm i thought the 2.5 was bored to 2.7 but not stroked though i am not sure on that. Doesnt TC make higher compression pistons for n/a applications. His long block remake with higher compression pistons and cams plus the normal NA goddies should get you to 230+
 

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Yeah T.C. can completely build the bottom end and there are high compression pistons offered for the 2.0 but not the delta ya. Malagous have you thought about just getting a stage 0 s/c its low boost. But yeah I prefer N/A unless you build your block.
 

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GDL said:
Yeah T.C. can completely build the bottom end and there are high compression pistons offered for the 2.0 but not the delta ya. Malagous have you thought about just getting a stage 0 s/c its low boost. But yeah I prefer N/A unless you build your block.
Nope, I am going to get a new car in about a year, so I don't want to invest any more money in the tib unless I need to. It would be prety cheap i'm sure if I sold my stage 4, but whatever.


Plus it always makes me chuckle when people post dynos of their stage 0 s/c kits (even the sniper) and they make low 200-210 whp, and I am making the same power as them NA.

I would like to see what a car with Crower cams would do if s/c'ed though...
 

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Malogus said:
Nope, I am going to get a new car in about a year, so I don't want to invest any more money in the tib unless I need to. It would be prety cheap i'm sure if I sold my stage 4, but whatever.


Plus it always makes me chuckle when people post dynos of their stage 0 s/c kits (even the sniper) and they make low 200-210 whp, and I am making the same power as them NA.

I would like to see what a car with Crower cams would do if s/c'ed though...

If/when you do sell the tib, which will be sad because you are the final authority when it comes to N/A, would you mind selling me your stage 4? And anything else you are planning on selling if you do?

Also do you still have any more set of cams for sale? I might want to pick up a set.
 

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malogus........I'll post my dyno as soon as I get my motor dialed in .TC put alot of time into my motor (NA)....I'm hoping to hit the 220+range.My heads have been ported polished with stg2 cams and over sized valves and a stage 4 intake, whole lot of money (yeeesh)....bottom end has been built also ........I've got aluminum under drive pullies and a BBT ,440 cc injectors,SMT-6 Smart tuner,all the cool gofast toys , but I chose to stay NA for the same reason ........It's my everyday driver....It didnt come cheap.I'm at a little over 16k invested in this Tib (suspension, Light weight rims,C/F hood,twin Nitrous syst,ZEX F/P,AEM FPR,Programmed Maf,ect .ect )............I'm gonna have Greg at ATD do the dyno and tuning :)
 

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If TC did his job right with the porting (and im sure he did) you should dominate 220 and destroy 230.
 

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viva_brasil said:
someone has around 210 whp and like 226wtq on a dyno jet without cams.... he has hotshot headers, cai, exhaust, stg. 4 IMs, pulleys, and probably a lightweight flywheel... So I don't know if he got cams if that would bump it up to around 220... I don't know. I would say stick with N/A if you want, since it's better for autox (and if you're boosted for those events you run with porsches and M3s), but if you just want straight line power then go F/I or get some NOS...
malogus said:
Whoever that guy is, he is lying. I have yet to see anyone without cams go above 198 whp. And I have been on these boards for 4 years now.
No the guy wasn't lying. I know who you're talking about. Those numbers are from a run on an unloaded dyno. He's probably at about 175-185 or so. and he will also be getting a set of regrinds from crower in the near future.
 

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Malogus said:
Nope, I am going to get a new car in about a year, so I don't want to invest any more money in the tib unless I need to. It would be prety cheap i'm sure if I sold my stage 4, but whatever.


Plus it always makes me chuckle when people post dynos of their stage 0 s/c kits (even the sniper) and they make low 200-210 whp, and I am making the same power as them NA.

I would like to see what a car with Crower cams would do if s/c'ed though...
Yeah but how much Tq compared to them :) and how fast is your n/a compared to a snipered Tib, is the sniper faster? If i can achieve that N/A I might consider staying n/a but im dying for mad torque/fastness, What kinda 1/4 mile time do you hit with your n/a setup.
 
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