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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
i'm ordering the stage 3 CM next week, along with a fidanza flywheel.

i call UltraRev on the phone to make sure they had the parts in stock, and could ship them fairly quick...no problem.

i asked him about the clutch, i was going to order the stage 2 CM, but he talked me into the stage 3 (same price as stage 2) so its probably a smart investment.

then i asked him about the flywheel, i was going to order the CM flywheel, then he told me the fidanza is cheaper, and a better flywheel.....PROBLEM....
I told him my car was made in dec. 03, and then i said do you have the fidanza i need in stock.
he said yea they all the same. WTF?!?!?!?!

the tech i talked to a hyn. told me to make SURE to get the right flywheel they make 2 different ones for the same year (2004), so this guy from ultrarev told me that it wont matter, and yes it will fit.

WTF do i do.....is they guy right, or is the hyn. tech right???

ALSO

the guy from alpine s/c, told me NOT to change my flywheel that i'll break my crank shaft because i dont have a harmoinic (SP?) balancer.....and the also said that he just changes the clutches in his cars and has well over 300hp to the wheels??

need help/advice...thanks
04 V6 6spd

-Josh
 

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WTF????? I need to know the answer to this question too because my clutch just went and I'm not sure if I should get just a clutch or both.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
i would like to go with name brand parts. not saying anything about boostology, but my quesiton still isn't answered or the 3 or 4 questions i asked
 

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bloodshark04 said:
i would like to go with name brand parts. not saying anything about boostology, but my quesiton still isn't answered or the 3 or 4 questions i asked
Boostology's GB on the RIPP clutch/flywheel setup is basically a clutchmaster combo with a little tweaking supposedly. But to answer your questions, yes there are two different sizes on the flywheel, and your manufacture date falls in line with the HY5, the more common one. But, you should check and make sure by measuring the distance of the teeth on the ring gear; the ring gear teeth are closer together on the HY5. Here is a link to the sheet from Fidanza:

http://www.newtiburon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91329

Now as for replacing clutches or doing clutch/flywheel combos, it is up to you. Im sure either will work fine, but if you want just replace a stock clutch you better make damn sure your your OEM flywheel(Retails for $800+) is new because if it is warped or has spots on it, your clutch will mate against it and fail prematurely costing you more money. An aftermarket flywheel is a cheaper alternative, and if it goes out you can always resurface the flywheel or buy the steel friction plate for $45 if you dont want to do that. I am almost did that, wanting to replace the clutch only, but then I realized what if it goes out prematurely and have to buy the clutch again with a flywheel, so I figured just to do it right the first time. The choice is up to you, but I suggest going with the clutch/flywheel combo. Fidanza or clutchmasters will do just fine Im sure and I dont think an aftermarket flywheel will damage the crankshaft. I havent had a chance to try this system out, but there a lot of people on here who have and would attest to doing the combo.
 

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Fidanza has 2 aluminum flywheels for the GK. HY3 and HY5. Fidanza and Ultrarev will both tell you that the HY5 will fit 99% of the tibs, and recommend you buy that part. If it doesn't fit, they'll let you return it for the correct one. The other choice is to pull your old fly wheel to identify it, and then order it.

The light weight flyheels are not perfectly balanced, but damn close as you can get.
 

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Wow, I thought you said this wasn't the typical clutch question. This has been asked probably 1,000,000,000,000,000 times. HY5 will fit almost every tib application, except the very first tibs manufactured. Those need the HY3 flywheel. And by very first tibs manufactured, I'm talking like late 2001, early 2002 manufacture dates. Mine was built in April 2002, and I was able to use the HY5.
 

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Malogus said:
Wow, I thought you said this wasn't the typical clutch question. This has been asked probably 1,000,000,000,000,000 times. HY5 will fit almost every tib application, except the very first tibs manufactured. Those need the HY3 flywheel. And by very first tibs manufactured, I'm talking like late 2001, early 2002 manufacture dates. Mine was built in April 2002, and I was able to use the HY5.
Here's an interesting article I read about a lightweight flywheel, not Fidanza, and not a tib, but it made a lot of sense. I had been wondering about the weight reduction advantages verses the inertia advantages, and thought it may be a wash in the end:


Again, as I'm a fanatic about weight reduction, the flywheel was put on a scale; it weighed in at only 12 lb (11 lb without the bolts) compared to 26 lb for the stock dual-mass flywheels on the '95 M3s. At half the weight, the Active flywheel was sure to give the car a new feel and better throttle response.

During the last three years, Active Autowerke has worked diligently on making sure its flywheels will handle 500 hp. I recall having its first-generation flywheel (it weighed 10.5 lb including bolts) on my previous '97 M3 and not experiencing any problems whatsoever. Since then, Active's flywheels have evolved into a third-generation package, resulting in a little added weight. "We were finding that the thinner flywheels were flexing with the turbo pressure plates and causing the disc to only make a 50-percent contact with the flywheel face and pressure plate. That is why our flywheels went from 10.5 lb to 12 lb," said Karl.

Without a hoist in my garage, I wasn't going to try this entire installation myself. I left the car in the hands of evosport's tech facility in Huntington Beach, Calif. evosport, a BMW, Mercedes-Benz and Ferrari tuner, has experience racing and tuning various BMW M3s. Since Project M3 will be experiencing many track days in the near future, a tuner with racing experience was desired, and evosport thankfully stepped up to the task. The company's serious approach and passion became evident upon my first glimpse of its multi-hoist garage, which also houses a Dynojet dynamometer used for extensive testing of its products--and they do test everything.

When the car rolled into evosport's tech center, we took the box of new stuff out of the trunk and inspected Active's clutch kit. One of the workers noticed that the pressure plate looked almost identical to the stock unit, with the exception of it being painted red. When asked about this, Active's Mike Hugh was prepared to answer: "The pressure plate is a high-performance unit sent to us from Germany, which we then send out to our guy who re-calibrates them to hold more power,"--and hold more power they do!

Just for kicks, Vadim Fedorovsky of evosport and I took the new and used pressure plates to George Kohler of McLeod Clutches in Orange County to have them compared. The stock Sachs pressure plate tested 1,669 lb of clamping force--not bad for a used O.E. clutch. Next up was the Active high-performance unit--2,608 lb of clamping force. George's eyes got real big: "Now that's a lot of clutch!"

"So you think it will handle up to 400-plus hp?" I asked him. George didn't even think twice, "Yep! Shouldn't be a problem." Needless to say, I gave the okay to have the clutch installed.

Later in the week, I went back to pick up my car. The technician brought the M3 out and we let it warm up. The lightweight flywheel's "clattering" noise was already apparent, but it wasn't annoying. I got inside and started playing with the throttle. Blipping the throttle in neutral made it obvious this car was revving up significantly more quickly. I pressed down on the clutch ("Hey, not as stiff as I thought; feels good!"), put it in first gear ("Nice!") and let the clutch back out ("Whoa..."), discovering that the new pressure plate released much more suddenly than the stock unit.

The B&M short shifter felt great from my first shift into second gear. Every gear choice felt smooth, leaving me confident that a costly miss-shift wasn't peeking its ugly head around the corner. I gave the M3 my first full-throttle rip and realized a pleasant zinging noise coming from the flywheel as the revs climbed. It sounded like a quiet supercharger! In the midrange it began to spool up faster, and then suddenly the rpm shot to redline with anger. I pressed the clutch pedal and watched the tach needle quickly drop back down again. Grinning from ear to ear, I looked over to Vadim, "This feels much more like a race car now!" The throttle response was very impressive and, as a result of the quicker revs, heel-and-toe downshifts were a piece of cake.

But, another noticeable difference was the loss of some low-end torque. The car seemed to rev more quickly but not until higher up in the rev range. Off the line, the car wouldn't pull like it used to when I dumped the clutch at 3500 rpm. The inertia generated from the heavier stock flywheel couldn't be reproduced with this lightweight unit for an out-of-the-hole launch. But, once the revs climbed, the needle was noticeably quicker, at least in the first few gears.

There's a rule of thumb recited by many M3 owners: The acceleration gains from a lightweight flywheel are equivalent to the acceleration gains an M3 will get from a 250 to 350-lb vehicular weight reduction in 1st gear, 100 lb in second and minimal gains in acceleration from third gear on up.

To see how close these numbers were, Project M3 was sent to our dyno man, Dominic Conti at the McMullen Argus Tech Center. I hypothesized that if there were to be any changes in acceleration, the rear-wheel horsepower and torque figures would show it. The M3 was loaded on the Dynojet 248C and a few first-, second- and third-gear runs were performed. Keep in mind that the intake temperatures were 15-18*F warmer this time because of the climate change, giving a small advantage to our baseline flywheel runs performed weeks earlier.

In first gear, sure enough, there was a loss of torque down low. The new 12-lb zinger gave the M3 a maximum loss of 8.2 lb-ft of torque and 5.7 bhp at 3660 rpm. The gap between the two curves steadily decreased to zero until they equaled at 5500 rpm. At this rev range the Active flywheel took over, with a maximum gain of 8.5 lb-ft of torque and 10.8 bhp at 6700 rpm. In addition, the car revved 120 rpm more than it did in the baseline run.

So, which would you choose--an upgrade that makes your car quicker above or below 5500 rpm? Before we answer this, let's take a look at second gear. Surprisingly, up until 4700 rpm, the lightened flywheel maintained torque with only a maximum loss of 2.4 lb-ft and 1.9 bhp at 4000 rpm to the stock flywheel. After 4700 rpm, the flywheel showed its advantage with a constant gain to redline, revealing a maximum gain of 4.4 lb-ft of torque at 5500 rpm and 4.7 bhp at 6500 rpm. Third gear runs were tested but yielded no significant gains or losses.

Whether the equivalent weight-loss theory stated previously was proven I am uncertain, but it did not seem too far off. In any case, it's safe to say the Active lightweight flywheel has both advantages and disadvantages over the stock unit.

Disadvantages: First, Active's flywheel did make some clattering noise while idling or under load at very low rpm, and especially if the A/C was turned on. Accelerate from 1500 rpm in fifth gear (something I do not recommend), and you'll really see what I mean by "clatter"! The single-mass lightweight flywheel cannot absorb torsional vibration from the crankshaft as effectively as the dual-mass stock unit (for this reason it is not recommended to use a flywheel and underdrive pulley upgrade together). Second, you will lose some low-end torque--especially off the line--as our dyno charts have shown. And last, the boys in Munich chose a heavier, dual-mass flywheel also to make it a bit easier to drive smoothly around town.

Advantages: First, the loss in low-end torque and horsepower is significantly made up in the upper rev range. Second, revs go up and down quickly, aiding in a quicker and easier heel-and-toe downshift. Third, there's a 14-lb loss in your vehicle's weight, which was more weight loss than the car had with the new exhaust. Fourth, the throttle response is greatly improved over stock. Finally, I really like that little "zing" noise!

Which should you choose? Consider in round one (first gear) that we have somewhat of a tie, assuming we want both low- and high-end torque--we win some and we lose some. But, that 10.8-bhp gain at 6700 rpm does sound appealing, especially knowing the difference would be a bit larger had there been more rpm available from the M3. In round two (second gear), the Active Autowerke aluminum flywheel made up its low-end torque loss and still bounced back with more wheel horsepower to play with. And what do you think would have happened had we tested this flywheel under our previous, cooler baseline conditions? Would it be safe to say 1 or 2 more hp?

I'm going to stay with the Active Autowerke flywheel, thanks.
 

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Good article.

I can't say i've ever heard "chatter." What does it sound like? Anyone have a sound clip of it?
 

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bagpiper said:
Here's an interesting article I read about a lightweight flywheel, not Fidanza, and not a tib, but it made a lot of sense. I had been wondering about the weight reduction advantages verses the inertia advantages, and thought it may be a wash in the end:
Yeah, you will notice a loss in low-end power, but it sure makes up for it in revving speed. I remember I raced a tib with a fidanza back when i had my stock clutch, and I had a pretty good jump off the line, just from the inertia of all that extra weight not causing the engine to bog as much. In the end I still like the fidanza unit better. Especially if you learn to feather the clutch and have the grip/suspension mods to take off from higher rpms. Launching from 4000+ rpms, I have beat many a cars off the line, even with a fidanza unit. Even with a LWF, 2.0 60' times are attainable.

For comparison, our OEM flywheel weighs ~23 pounds, where the fidanza weighs ~11 I think. My grandpa used to have a corvette he drag raced, and he had different weight flywheels he used depending on whether he was drag racing or road racing. For drag racing he had a 40 pound flywheel he would use for better off the line performance.
 

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bloodshark04:
the guy from alpine s/c, told me NOT to change my flywheel that i'll break my crank shaft because i dont have a harmoinic (SP?) balancer.....and the also said that he just changes the clutches in his cars and has well over 300hp to the wheels??
Have you heard of this problem before, because I'm ordering my Fidanza and CM Stage 4 today?
 

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I hope this setup lasts, because I just ordered while the sale is on:

Products ordered
SKU Product Item price Quantity Total

05-055-HDCB6 FX400 Clutchmasters Stage 4 Hyundai Tiburon 2003-2006 6cyl 2.7L V6 (6-puck sprung hub) $513.00

193461-250 Fidanza Aluminum Flywheel Hyundai Tiburon 2003-2006 2.7L Fits Both 5-speed and 6-Speed (9.5 lbs) $323.10

Subtotal: $836.10
Shipping cost: $26.98

Total: $863.08
 

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bagpiper said:
I hope this setup lasts, because I just ordered while the sale is on:

Products ordered
SKU Product Item price Quantity Total

05-055-HDCB6 FX400 Clutchmasters Stage 4 Hyundai Tiburon 2003-2006 6cyl 2.7L V6 (6-puck sprung hub) $513.00

193461-250 Fidanza Aluminum Flywheel Hyundai Tiburon 2003-2006 2.7L Fits Both 5-speed and 6-Speed (9.5 lbs) $323.10

Subtotal: $836.10
Shipping cost: $26.98

Total: $863.08

Let us know how it works. I considering a FX300 clutchmaster with CM flywheel of Fidenza. I have close to stock Hp and I just want a flipping reliable long lasting clutch and flywheel setup.
 

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bagpiper said:
I hope this setup lasts, because I just ordered while the sale is on:

Products ordered
SKU Product Item price Quantity Total

05-055-HDCB6 FX400 Clutchmasters Stage 4 Hyundai Tiburon 2003-2006 6cyl 2.7L V6 (6-puck sprung hub) $513.00

193461-250 Fidanza Aluminum Flywheel Hyundai Tiburon 2003-2006 2.7L Fits Both 5-speed and 6-Speed (9.5 lbs) $323.10

Subtotal: $836.10
Shipping cost: $26.98

Total: $863.08
That setup will NOT work. You ordered the fidanza unit, with a sprung clutch disk. Consensus it the fidanza flywheel will not fit with a sprung clutch disk.

Sprung clutch -notice the springs in the middle used for dampening. Apparently you will have clearance issues with the fidanza flywheel.



An unsprung clutch looks just like that, but without the springs. The springs are used to help with dampening, but Hyundai chose to use a dual-mass flywheel for dampening vs. a sprung clutch.
 

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Malogus said:
That setup will NOT work. You ordered the fidanza unit, with a sprung clutch disk. Consensus it the fidanza flywheel will not fit with a sprung clutch disk.

Sprung clutch -notice the springs in the middle used for dampening. Apparently you will have clearance issues with the fidanza flywheel.



An unsprung clutch looks just like that, but without the springs. The springs are used to help with dampening, but Hyundai chose to use a dual-mass flywheel for dampening vs. a sprung clutch.
I hope not, cause I discussed this with ultrarev and he said the sprung would work fine.Guess I'll give them a call.

*update: I called ultrarev back and he said they've sold hundreds of the Fidanza with sprung CM clutches and hasn't had a problem. He said almost 2 years ago they had a different flywheel which had some issues, but they kept the same part# and revised the flywheel, and since there have been no problems.
 

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bagpiper said:
I hope not, cause I discussed this with ultrarev and he said the sprung would work fine.Guess I'll give them a call.
Well I believe fidanza has told a few people that it won't work. Do a little more searching around here and see if you can find anything. I could also be wrong.
 

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Malogus said:
That setup will NOT work. You ordered the fidanza unit, with a sprung clutch disk. Consensus it the fidanza flywheel will not fit with a sprung clutch disk.

Sprung clutch -notice the springs in the middle used for dampening. Apparently you will have clearance issues with the fidanza flywheel.



An unsprung clutch looks just like that, but without the springs. The springs are used to help with dampening, but Hyundai chose to use a dual-mass flywheel for dampening vs. a sprung clutch.
I have sold over 500 set ups with sprung hub and fidanza. They used to have an old design that didnt accept sprung hub but that was over 2 years ago.
 

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UltraRev said:
Feel free to call fidanza 440-259-5656 ask if HY5 will work with sprung hub answer is YES!!
You're probably right, I haven't looked at a lot of clutch info in 2+ years since I got my new one. I have an unsprung, but might look at a sprung if it needs replacing again.
 
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