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Dont bother me much at all, I dont plan on adding any votes to the two parties that are leading to the downfall of our great nation:

Americans have been propagandized into following a two-party system by certain wealthy elites who have not only captured our two major parties, but also control many of our large corporations, our entertainment industry, the mass media (that explains why we didn't hear about the CNN poll giving McClintock the win for governor) and government schools. These elite socialists are able to easily propagandize us through all such medium, especially the government schools where they are able to train our children from a very young age. The push is on to get to our children from birth.
Some people think its the only way, to vote for the two parties who have embedded themselves into our system so deep we think their is no other way. I see it otherwise, and the current state of the nation is making alot of people think that was as well. There are better parties with better policies for this land, I wont waste my vote again like I have in the past.

croat
 

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croat said:
Dont bother me much at all, I dont plan on adding any votes to the two parties that are leading to the downfall of our great nation:



Some people think its the only way, to vote for the two parties who have embedded themselves into our system so deep we think their is no other way. I see it otherwise, and the current state of the nation is making alot of people think that was as well. There are better parties with better policies for this land, I wont waste my vote again like I have in the past.

croat


I agree with you, and I have to say, although I lost a lot of faith in our so-called 'Democratic Process,' Obama was the main speaker at my sister's graduation ceremony and he did a tremendous job.
 

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Two things... Obama is the man! I feel he should be the one to run for the Dems. and two...

About your two party thing that you blurbed about. I tend to agree with you, but, what are we going to do about it? We cant force people to see our points of view. We cant force people to go and vote for other parties. All we can do is vote the way we feel. Chances are if we vote for a green, independent, communist, socialist, or whatever other parties there are (please excuse my ignorance I don't know all the non-mainstream parties), you are doing nothing more than throwing away your vote. At least for now, until said parties become popular enough to withstand and vocalize their views. I think this will happen, just not too soon...

So the way I see it, as bad as it sounds, you should still vote. That is what the primaries are for. You have a say in who you like the best for the party. Than you can vote for them to run and bla bla bla, but you know this.

give it time, people will get fed up with this system when our economy crumbles, poverty increases, health care becomes useless, our government destroys the constitution and the world hates us...

oh wait... thats right now! lol
 

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I kind of think thats a ******** way to think tho, I dont think that anyone is wasting any vote for whoever they vote for in any party. Its only a waste when you dont vote. I dont like primaries at all as none of my opinions are defined in one party, thats why I dont vote in the primaries and only vote in the general. One day the 2 party system will have met its demise and it sounds like voting for anyone but them will be the most effective way.
 

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heh, I TOTALY agree with you! maybe the throwing away a vote thing was the wrong way to say it. But as long as you vote you do your civic duty.
 

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jesterking said:
Two things... Obama is the man! I feel he should be the one to run for the Dems. and two...

About your two party thing that you blurbed about. I tend to agree with you, but, what are we going to do about it? We cant force people to see our points of view. We cant force people to go and vote for other parties. All we can do is vote the way we feel. Chances are if we vote for a green, independent, communist, socialist, or whatever other parties there are (please excuse my ignorance I don't know all the non-mainstream parties), you are doing nothing more than throwing away your vote. At least for now, until said parties become popular enough to withstand and vocalize their views. I think this will happen, just not too soon...

So the way I see it, as bad as it sounds, you should still vote. That is what the primaries are for. You have a say in who you like the best for the party. Than you can vote for them to run and bla bla bla, but you know this.

give it time, people will get fed up with this system when our economy crumbles, poverty increases, health care becomes useless, our government destroys the constitution and the world hates us...

oh wait... thats right now! lol
wow. if you vote something other than democrat or republican you are throwing away your vote? there's a nice stance....

and you always rant about our economy being so horrible..... back it up or shut up about it already.
 

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I would vote for Obama over pretty much anyone the Dems or GOP could toss up there.

But I will most likely be saving my vote for an independent.
 

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jmpusmcr said:
wow. if you vote something other than democrat or republican you are throwing away your vote? there's a nice stance....

and you always rant about our economy being so horrible..... back it up or shut up about it already.
haha, if you read the other posts you would see i did back it up. so before you go making comments on what i say read what i say. I withdrew what i originaly said about wasting the vote because its not really what i ment. Just came out wrong when i wrote it. So do us all a favor and read before you speak

But since you dont take the time to read, here let me show you what i wrote:
jesterking said:
heh, I TOTALY agree with you! maybe the throwing away a vote thing was the wrong way to say it. But as long as you vote you do your civic duty.
That was just before your post.
and this one is about how our economy is crumbling:

jesterking said:
Straight into the ground. Why? simple... WTO, Outsourcing, NAFTA. NAFTA and WTO would be a great idea if everyone played fair. The US plays fair with it but the rest don't. We don't Tax the hell of of imports (well we do, but not like the rest of the world) making their goods undesirable. We allow china to dominate the world production industry in every aspect of the market. From freakin apples to shoes. Fig Nutton the cookie company now makes food in Mexico. The top American motor companies which drive our economy are falling and falling fast! Steal is Japan's industry so whenever we need to build buildings cars aircraft carriers, we give Japan Money! Yea sure there are Honda plants and Fuji Films factories in the US and we "assemble" things here. But they are not being created created here and about 75% of the money made off of those products go right back to the country their home base is at. Only about 2 percent of the materials for these cars are being made in america. they are little things like lifter springs. and yes... America got however many millions of "new jobs", but doesn't mean anything unless you like working at McDonallds, or the gas station. These new jobs that are being created are not contributing to our economy because they are mostly minimum wage jobs.

Another thing that is showing why our economy is falling is the nation debt. It is said that every American will have to pay $28,000 just to bring it back down. I don't know about you but i pay enough in taxes and shouldnt have to pay more. If they kept the taxes the way they were and not do that restarted tax cut thing we wouldn't be in this mess. Don t get me wrong I love tax cuts, but from an economic point of view it was the wrong move to make. Its just a vote grabber. So now with no real money coming in, and our economy being handed over to other countries, a war that we will never win and billions being spent on it, we go and barrow money from china. Most of the money that is being used for this war and whatever else we need money for is comming from china. YAY!! lets give china more leverage over us!!

Would anyone like a course in comparative economics and see how we stack up to other countries in fiscal growth with comparison to our population dispersal? it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that our country is expanding faster than we can put money into our pockets.
Now, to make it perfectly clear, I'm not saying people have to vote right wing or left wing. I am happy if people vote at all. I was simply making the observation that other parties are not mainstream and don't have the backing of the general public. So voting for someone who no one else has ever heard of is a bit futile, get me? And as for our economy I laid it out, its all fact. Agree with it or not I don't care. I just took about 50 freakin classes on the matter. Not saying im a expert on this, but i like to think i know alittle. Its your choice to not listen to the truth. But if you brush this off without even entertaining the idea that it might be true (which it is), I would have to question the level of your education. Think about it, because the more people are in denial the worse we and our children will be.

But let me hear why you think the economy is doing so very well?
 

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jesterking said:
NAFTA and WTO would be a great idea if everyone played fair. The US plays fair with it but the rest don't.
Heh, heh, stumpage fees/soft-wood lumber, anyone?

Anyways, I really like Obama's style. He isn't insanely left wing and has proven that he's capable of working with multiple ideals and parties. This type of politician would help with international relationships.
 

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tuscaniblu3 said:
Heh, heh, stumpage fees/soft-wood lumber, anyone?

Anyways, I really like Obama's style. He isn't insanely left wing and has proven that he's capable of working with multiple ideals and parties. This type of politician would help with international relationships.
exactly... hes not the typical WASP that has been in government forever! we need a change and it needs to be a big one such as Obama! :)
 

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I just want to know how it is that the guy has only just been elected to his first Congressional term ever, and he's already being promoted as one of the major Democrat hopefuls for the upcoming presidential election. I mean, I was in IL for that race, I remember how the whole thing went down. The guy won because A). In one of the lowest political moves that it has ever been my displeasure to witness a reporter convinced a judge that he should have access to Republican candidate Jack Ryan's sealed divorce records and used the court documents of the man's personal life in order to discredit him and force him to drop out of the close race. And B). Ryan was then replaced with Alan Keyes. Alan Keyes! I could beat Alan Keyes in a race for a public office, and I'm a ranting half-psychotic Libertarian!

So somehow a guy who has just barely managed to win his first race by a combination of underhanded politics (No, not on his part AFAIK) and incompetent competitors is somehow being passed off as some kind of Democrat Messiah. I just don't understand it. Seriously, is the idea of Hillary so terrifying to the Democrats that they've decided that the newbie is better than the alternatives? Are they really that devoid of potential candidates, or is it that he really is that good? I'm seriously asking here folks... After that race and a few other choice political moments I've washed my hands of Illinois politics completely, and so if he's somehow managed to be the first IL politician in decades to not only avoid overt corruption, but to in fact make some sort of positive difference, let me know. There's got to be some reason that a guy with as little expereince as him, from a family with no political pull that I can see, has somehow managed to build up so much political capital in such a short period of time.
 

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ARCguy said:
I just want to know how it is that the guy has only just been elected to his first Congressional term ever, and he's already being promoted as one of the major Democrat hopefuls for the upcoming presidential election. I mean, I was in IL for that race, I remember how the whole thing went down. The guy won because A). In one of the lowest political moves that it has ever been my displeasure to witness a reporter convinced a judge that he should have access to Republican candidate Jack Ryan's sealed divorce records and used the court documents of the man's personal life in order to discredit him and force him to drop out of the close race. And B). Ryan was then replaced with Alan Keyes. Alan Keyes! I could beat Alan Keyes in a race for a public office, and I'm a ranting half-psychotic Libertarian!

So somehow a guy who has just barely managed to win his first race by a combination of underhanded politics (No, not on his part AFAIK) and incompetent competitors is somehow being passed off as some kind of Democrat Messiah. I just don't understand it. Seriously, is the idea of Hillary so terrifying to the Democrats that they've decided that the newbie is better than the alternatives? Are they really that devoid of potential candidates, or is it that he really is that good? I'm seriously asking here folks... After that race and a few other choice political moments I've washed my hands of Illinois politics completely, and so if he's somehow managed to be the first IL politician in decades to not only avoid overt corruption, but to in fact make some sort of positive difference, let me know. There's got to be some reason that a guy with as little expereince as him, from a family with no political pull that I can see, has somehow managed to build up so much political capital in such a short period of time.
Well the same could be said for George W. he didn't necessarily have much experience, besides being the son of a former president. People want a change, they want new blood. They are tired of the recycled crap of the past. We need someone new and intelligent. Someone who doesn't lean to far in one direction or the other. Obama seems like the perfect choice to win votes from both parties. It's not dumb or desperation on the Dem side, it's quite an intelligent move.
 

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ARCguy said:
I just want to know how it is that the guy has only just been elected to his first Congressional term ever, and he's already being promoted as one of the major Democrat hopefuls for the upcoming presidential election. I mean, I was in IL for that race, I remember how the whole thing went down. The guy won because A). In one of the lowest political moves that it has ever been my displeasure to witness a reporter convinced a judge that he should have access to Republican candidate Jack Ryan's sealed divorce records and used the court documents of the man's personal life in order to discredit him and force him to drop out of the close race. And B). Ryan was then replaced with Alan Keyes. Alan Keyes! I could beat Alan Keyes in a race for a public office, and I'm a ranting half-psychotic Libertarian!

So somehow a guy who has just barely managed to win his first race by a combination of underhanded politics (No, not on his part AFAIK) and incompetent competitors is somehow being passed off as some kind of Democrat Messiah. I just don't understand it. Seriously, is the idea of Hillary so terrifying to the Democrats that they've decided that the newbie is better than the alternatives? Are they really that devoid of potential candidates, or is it that he really is that good? I'm seriously asking here folks... After that race and a few other choice political moments I've washed my hands of Illinois politics completely, and so if he's somehow managed to be the first IL politician in decades to not only avoid overt corruption, but to in fact make some sort of positive difference, let me know. There's got to be some reason that a guy with as little expereince as him, from a family with no political pull that I can see, has somehow managed to build up so much political capital in such a short period of time.

:3_winkthu

Well to agree people want a change. Obama may not have experience, or a family with political pull, but don't you think thats kind of a good thing? He hasn't been in the game long enough to become corrupt yet... Well maybe not. All politicians are corrupt! But some less than others. But than again if he doesn't have those links already established that could leave him susceptible to the "wrong" kind of people. Or maybe they want to think he is the new kid on the block with new ideas instead of repeating sound bites over and over and over (stay the course, cut and run, flip flopper). As for the question of Hillary being so scary. I would say yes. I'm from NY and I can tell you I'm not voting for her! I don't like her, not one bit. She doesn't know where she stands, she hasn't really done anything for this state. And if she becomes president, I feel the republicans will be able to call her a flip flopper and all those little things they call the dems.

Bottom line hes a new face, and this country needs a fresh start! Not to mention he would be the first non-white president if he were to become elected. I'm sure Hillary would be the first woman vice president as well.

ARCguy said:
and I'm a ranting half-psychotic Libertarian!
Welcome to the ranting half-psychotic club! If your really good you can become full psychotic like the rest of us! :3_smile:
 

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I personally would like someone in office that has been around politics but came from a non-political family. Look throughout history on where family grown politicians got us and every other country ......... no where good (war, economic collapse, etc). When is the deadline for presidential candidates (I'll look in a sec as well)?
 

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jesterking said:
Now, to make it perfectly clear, I'm not saying people have to vote right wing or left wing. I am happy if people vote at all. I was simply making the observation that other parties are not mainstream and don't have the backing of the general public. So voting for someone who no one else has ever heard of is a bit futile, get me? And as for our economy I laid it out, its all fact. Agree with it or not I don't care. I just took about 50 freakin classes on the matter. Not saying im a expert on this, but i like to think i know alittle. Its your choice to not listen to the truth. But if you brush this off without even entertaining the idea that it might be true (which it is), I would have to question the level of your education. Think about it, because the more people are in denial the worse we and our children will be.

But let me hear why you think the economy is doing so very well?

.... no way.. you've taken classes? omg, quick! run to washington! tell everyone the sky is falling because you took the classes! :3_saai: somehow i think the real experts would be making a bigger deal of this(like you seem to be doing) if your ideas were true.


side note: 50 classes on economy? lol.... lets see that transcript buddy
 
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