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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Alright. Here's the scoop.

My newest 2004 Tidal Wave has been running great overall since I installed the HKS SSQV. However, I still experience a few odd issues from time to time, and short of throwing parts at the car in search of a solution, I'm just about stumped. So let's see what you guys think...

First - I used the RIPP provided S-AFC II to tune my first SDS on my 2003 Carbon Blue, and when I purchased this latest one, it had a MAFterburner installed. Now while I fully understand how both fuel tuners operate, the two cars have a totally different tune. And I'm not talking a few percent here... but at many points in the RPM range, there's like a 65% difference in fuel requirements (-40% to +25%), with the 2004 being the one requiring more fuel.

Now I know "every car is different"... but THAT different? Perhaps they leaned out the stock ECU fuel maps somewhat from 2003 to 2004, but I just don't see why I should be having to add roughly 25% fuel on the low throttle map on 290cc injectors just to get things to even out (and even then, my LT fuel trims are in the positives with the occasional lean hiccup). As such, it would seem at first glance like I'm either getting too much air, or not enough fuel.

However, I have NO signs of intake vacuum leaks whatsoever, so getting extra, unmetered air in the system doesn't make sense. I have theorized that with the HKS SSQV not venting under steady vacuum might be messing with the MAF readings somewhat, and not allowing enough air to flow by the MAF under these conditions (which would mean less fuel)... but there wasn't much of a difference that I can recall with the RIPP BPV (or not a 65% difference, at least).

Anyway - here are the differences between the 2 cars.

2003:

S-AFC II
290cc Injectors
NGM Stage III Upper IM
HotShot Headers
Lightweight Crank Pulley
Injen SES Exhaust
Both Stock and Malpassi FPR (vacuum to both)
Stock Drivetrain
Stock Fuel Rail
RIPP BPV
Stock Fuel Pump

2004:

MAFterburner
290cc Injectors
Stock Upper IM
RIPP Prototype Headers
Stock Crank Pulley
Injen SES Exhaust
Malpassi FPR (stock removed)
Clutchmasters Stage 3 Clutch, Lightwiehgt Flywheel, Quaife LSD
NGM Fuel Rail with Gauge
HKS SSQV BOV
Bosch Hi-Flow Fuel Pump

Now I don't believe the upper IM, headers, crank pulley or drivetrain would make a 65% difference in fuel requirements, and the exhaust is the same (other than a possible small exhaust leak on the 2004 at the joint behind the cat). Also, the difference was there before I removed the stock FPR from the 2004, so that shouldn't be it, either. That leaves the fuel tuner, injectors, fuel rail, BPV/BOV and fuel pump.

Now the fuel rail itself also shouldn't make a big difference at low throttle, and if the pump made a difference, it should make things richer. Also, the fuel settings seemed high even before the HKS BOV (even though idle and driveability sucked), so unless something is wrong with the tuner (and it seems to work fine, albeit with higher than expected settings), I'm currently thinking maybe the injectors could be clogged? I do know the guy I bought the car from said he had some major issues with the first gauge that came with the NGM fuel rails, so maybe something got into the rails (I also think the idiot put anti-seize on the threads rather than thread sealant) and clogged an injector or two? I'm just shooting in the dark here...

So... any off-the-wall, outside-the-box opinions? As I said - this is my last step short of getting new (and probably larger) injectors, and replacing the FPR/BOV ... none of which I really want to do at the moment considering I'm trying to prioritize rebuilding the hurt engine in my 2003.
 

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03 and 04 fuel maps change alot
 

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I agree with your MAF theory. You are not running a return setup, right? If not, then I think it has everything to do with the BOV.

On my return setup, I orginally ran into problems with the MAF being to close to where the return was (erratic idling, and running super rich). I later moved the MAF right after the filter (in the fender well) and walla, fixed!(after numerous hours on the phone with Tim @ NGM)
 

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Discussion Starter #5
viva_brasil said:
run some fuel injector cleaner and see if that makes a difference...
http://www.valvoline.com/pages/products/product_detail.asp?product=24

I've also heard about that sea foam stuff working wonders, but i don't know if you can suck the sea foam up in a s/c engine (don't know if it'll mess with the s/c).

good luck.
Yeah - I've got a can of Sea Foam sitting right here to try, but I've run several bottles of other fuel injector cleaners through the system in the past few months to no avail. That's one reason I hesitate to say it's the injectors, as only so many things can go wrong there...

Zaion said:
03 and 04 fuel maps change alot
Well I figured they did change some (as the 03's were factory tuned pig rich)... but they still use 190cc injectors stock with no running issues, so the maps should not cause THAT much of a difference in 290cc injectors IMO.

trojan said:
I agree with your MAF theory. You are not running a return setup, right? If not, then I think it has everything to do with the BOV.

On my return setup, I orginally ran into problems with the MAF being to close to where the return was (erratic idling, and running super rich). I later moved the MAF right after the filter (in the fender well) and walla, fixed!(after numerous hours on the phone with Tim @ NGM)
I'm really leaning towards this possibility as well, and have seriously been considering converting over to draw-thru as a first course of action. Everyone seems to have had great success with this method... but as I said - I experienced this issue even with the RIPP BPV, which I never did with my 2003. I just hate to throw another few hundred towards a new BOV and piping.. not to mention having to splice/extend the MAF on a car I might part out in the future once my other Tib is rebuilt (which is the main reason I haven't done it yet).
 

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Discussion Starter #7
nightdarkness04 said:
Doesn't Ripp give you 310cc injectors instead of 290cc. Don't know if that helps or not.
They're 290cc "rising rate" injectors, that are supposed to flow 310cc at 60psi fuel pressure. But if you want my opinion, that's just a marketing gimmick, as ANY injector will flow more fuel the more pressure you feed to it. THrow 80psi pressure at these injectors, and they'll probably flow like a 330 or 340cc injector.

Bottom line... I'm pretty sure they're the same Hyundai 290cc injectors that everyone else sells.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Hey - quick question to whoever. If converting to draw thru... would there be any major disadvantage to using 3" piping on the inlet side of the blower even though the blower inlet itself is 3.5"? I mean - the MAF is 3", so that in itself would cause a restriction on the inlet side if relocated.

I'm just wondering since I have some 3" piping and cut-to-length couplers left over from my custom intake piping between the blower and the TB, and I'd come out quite a bit cheaper utilizing this stuff and going 3" on the inlet side as well.

Any opinions? I wouldn't think the blower could draw any more air through 3" piping on the inlet side than it could flow out through 3" piping on the outlet side (which is still larger than the 2.5" piping that came with the RIPP kit in the first place)...
 

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trojan said:
I agree with your MAF theory. You are not running a return setup, right? If not, then I think it has everything to do with the BOV.

On my return setup, I orginally ran into problems with the MAF being to close to where the return was (erratic idling, and running super rich). I later moved the MAF right after the filter (in the fender well) and walla, fixed!(after numerous hours on the phone with Tim @ NGM)
this is how mine is set up as well...
 

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dzignr_tastz said:
Hey - quick question to whoever. If converting to draw thru... would there be any major disadvantage to using 3" piping on the inlet side of the blower even though the blower inlet itself is 3.5"? I mean - the MAF is 3", so that in itself would cause a restriction on the inlet side if relocated.

I'm just wondering since I have some 3" piping and cut-to-length couplers left over from my custom intake piping between the blower and the TB, and I'd come out quite a bit cheaper utilizing this stuff and going 3" on the inlet side as well.

Any opinions? I wouldn't think the blower could draw any more air through 3" piping on the inlet side than it could flow out through 3" piping on the outlet side (which is still larger than the 2.5" piping that came with the RIPP kit in the first place)...
I used 3" piping on both sides.

BTW, talk to TC about his bigger MAF that is calibrated for 440cc injectors. I know there is someone (smebysound ) running an SDS system with this setup and is seeing some major improvements.
 

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You know the sad thing is with some redesign this kit could have been the best option for F/I. If TC had the time to mess around with this kit, we would see some major improvements.
 

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it's truely sad that ripp put out this kit and left it up to customers to get it to work correctly. what a piss poor company. that being said, i've got no extra money to make mine work correctly, so i'm gonna sell it. it's got maybe 100 miles on it..... what a shame
 

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I would buy it, because i want one really bad, even with all the talk of problems, I think i like the kit so much because not many other people have it and so many people complain about it. get it working properly and their are some numbers!
 

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jmpusmcr said:
it's truely sad that ripp put out this kit and left it up to customers to get it to work correctly. what a piss poor company. that being said, i've got no extra money to make mine work correctly, so i'm gonna sell it. it's got maybe 100 miles on it..... what a shame
with your money from it you should buy the NGM turbo or the assassin
 

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ddemlong said:
with your money from it you should buy the NGM turbo or the assassin
nah, i'm trying to get my nuclear med degree.... my money goes towards that now... fun car stuff after college is over. i don't want this thread off-topic, so if someone wants to talk to me about my SDS, pm me
 

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i have 3.5" on the inlet side and use reducers to put the maf in. i with i had a larger maf. not necessarily calibrated, but just larger diameter.

the one thing i dislike aboot the draw through is the lack of room in the fender well. either way, driveability is MUCH better with draw through. with the 290cc/310cc injectors and a versatile rising rate FPR you could tune the car to drive phenomenal in both low and high end. not only that, but upping the fuel pressure requires less work from the fuel tuner in turn not messing with the timing as much.
 

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trojan said:
You know the sad thing is with some redesign this kit could have been the best option for F/I. If TC had the time to mess around with this kit, we would see some major improvements.
you would be suprised ironic that is.......but i'm not supposed to say more so ......
 

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trojan said:
You know the sad thing is with some redesign this kit could have been the best option for F/I. If TC had the time to mess around with this kit, we would see some major improvements.

DJ you never get on aim haha... You should hit me up when you get a chance.
 
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