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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Can someone plz draw up a diagram for a turbo setup??

like where all the lines, tubes, turbo, oil catch can, pcv, etc... are routed to and give a small explanation of what it does?

just trying to find a simple little drawing to help us future turbo newbie guys out...

thx!
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Agreed.

Please buy several books.
i have worked on a few turbo cars with friends, ive even pulled a few fwd engines before and reinstalled with no problems, im pretty sure i can do it with a few diagrams and bits of understanding, and dont worry im not gonna proceed in the middle of the turbo install unless i know that where im installing is 100% where the hose or what not is suppose to be installed
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
just because you think you know how to install one doesn't mean you know how to run and maintain one
could u be anymore negative??? bad day? leave it at home and off the pc plz

i try to think this is a positive place for learning and expanding everyones knowledge...
 

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Nick-Yes, I have boost!
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Sorry, but I don't understand.. If you said this:
i have worked on a few turbo cars with friends, ive even pulled a few fwd engines before and reinstalled with no problems, im pretty sure i can do it with a few diagrams and bits of understanding, and dont worry im not gonna proceed in the middle of the turbo install unless i know that where im installing is 100% where the hose or what not is suppose to be installed
Why do you say this:
Can someone plz draw up a diagram for a turbo setup??

like where all the lines, tubes, turbo, oil catch can, pcv, etc... are routed to and give a small explanation of what it does?

just trying to find a simple little drawing to help us future turbo newbie guys out...

thx!
?

If you've read all the books that have been mentioned several times in many threads, all of those questions you have will be answered. The only questions you may have are: what would you recommend for an engine management system and why (and we'd point you to threads), what LPH fuel pump would you recommend for Xhp, and that's about it..

Once you understand the basics of turbos and the parts that make up a turbo system, you can apply that knowledge to any and all cars.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
its because hes never worked on a turbo before.
True... i want to do this myself and i want to be confident doing it....
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·

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Google is your friend. Type in a search for turbo diagrams and you'll get a lot of results. Turbos are pretty easy once you've got a basic understanding of how they work. The oil/water lines, intercooler, compressor housing, turbine housing, piping, etc. will seem like common sense once you understand how it all works. I did a decent write up on our local rx-7 forums explaining a little bit about turbos. Give me a few minutes and I'll copy/paste the info here for you to see. A big chunk of it is learning how to read compressor maps, but there's some info as far as what different terminology means for turbos. I'll add to it as well stuff that would pertain to piston engines.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Google is your friend. Type in a search for turbo diagrams and you'll get a lot of results. Turbos are pretty easy once you've got a basic understanding of how they work. The oil/water lines, intercooler, compressor housing, turbine housing, piping, etc. will seem like common sense once you understand how it all works. I did a decent write up on our local rx-7 forums explaining a little bit about turbos. Give me a few minutes and I'll copy/paste the info here for you to see. A big chunk of it is learning how to read compressor maps, but there's some info as far as what different terminology means for turbos. I'll add to it as well stuff that would pertain to piston engines.
sounds good
 

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could u be anymore negative??? bad day? leave it at home and off the pc plz

i try to think this is a positive place for learning and expanding everyones knowledge...
I'm not being negative. I'm being realistic. Because of the questions you are asking, you probably don't know how to run and maintain a turbo either. If you want advice i would say read street turbocharging

 

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Nick-Yes, I have boost!
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Oil restrictor!
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
i ordered the book and thx...

my friend was trying to explain to me the setup the other day at work...

1.PcV to Intake Setup?
PCV>Oil Catch Can>1wayvalve>T-split valve>1way to nipple on intake
2way to BoV

2.Water/Oil Turbocharger?
Oil...
Side Head Plug> inlet Turbo>OutLet Turbo>to oil pan? wheres the catch can go or is setup wrong?

Water...(Heat Exchanger)...
hows this one routed?
>inlet Turbo>Outlet Turbo> upper Rad hose? lower Rad hose? Heat Exchanger?


what of this is right? whats wrong? whats other options
 

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Okay, since this subject has been coming up often, I thought I'd make a thread to show how matching a turbo to your engine is determined using compressor maps. It looks more difficult then it actually is. Here's a compressor map of a GT35R turbo that I'll be using for this demonstration.



Okay, first I'll explain a little bit about the map:
The vertical numbers along the side of the map that are titled pressure ratio. That's boost pressure converted to the pressure ratio. The horizontal numbers running along the bottom is the corrected air flow in lb/min.

Now onto the information that's on the map:
The "half ovals" are the information you'll be reading. If you notice, there's little numbers in the center, IE: 79% 78% 76% 74% 72% etc. That's the actual efficiency of the turbo. Typically they go from 75% to roughly 62%. This GT35R map goes from 79% to 60%. The efficiency you're looking for is above 70% ideally. 60%-70% is okay, but try to avoid that area. Anything below 60% is no good.

That's the main info you'll need to read the map.

Now onto actually reading the map with info:
Reading it is like reading a topographical map. You read it from the center out trying to stay as close to the dotted line that runs in the center as much as possible throughout your boost range. If you go to much to the left of the map, your engine is pumping more air than your engine can consume. If you go to much to the right, your engine is requiring more air than the turbo can produce.

Now, some estimated numbers using a rotary corrected air flow at 7,000RPMs (I like to use 7k RPMs in my models because we all know that rotaries can go to 7k no problem and if you're racing and you shift before 7k, you shouldn't be racing!:) ) and boost pressures of 5psi, 10psi, 15psi, and 20psi:

5psi=1.34 Pressure Ratio (Remember pressure ratio is the vertical numbers running along the side)

10psi=1.68 Pressure Ratio

15psi=2.02 Pressure Ratio

20psi=2.36 Pressure Ratio


**The pressure ratios above are pressure ratios for ANY car, piston or rotary, since the same formula is used to get this figure. Pressure Ratio=1bar+psi/1bar

These are CFM figures for a rotary engine at 7,000RPMs:

5psi=387 CFM in a 1.3l rotary or 27lb/min corrected air flow

10psi= 486 CFM or 34lb/min corrected air flow

15psi= 584 CFM or 40lb/min correted air flow

20psi= 682 CFM or 47lb/min corrected air flow

So at 7k RPMs with 20pounds per square inch (psi) of pressure flowing thru your engine, it's moving air at a rate of 682 cubic feet per minute (cfm).

Now the conversion from CFM to the corrected airflow is done by this formula:
CFM/14.27046=corrected air flow (lb/min)

So now we've got our pressure ratio (from converted boost pressure) and corrected air flow (from converted CFM). We can now plot! :) This is the easiest part, it's just like when you were in 5th grade and had to plot a graph. First we'll find our pressure ratio on the compressor map (15psi is 2.02 pressure ratio) of 2.02. Find your corrected air flow of 40lb/min on the map. Now you'll find where those two intersect and you have your target efficiency range.


As you can see, at 7,000RPMs and 15psi of boost, you're at 79% efficiency which is why the GT35R is an exceptional turbo for rotaries! :D




Now onto the turbine housing or "hot" side of the turbo and how this comes into play.

Okay, so the "cold" side of the turbo is working to get air into your engine efficiently. Now you need a good "hot" side, or turbine to get it out the engine quickly and have good response.

First, forget what you heard, a t3 is going to be to small for a rotary. It's creating a lot of back pressure, making your turbo work harder, which in turn leads to hotter air being pushed into your engine. Hot air leads to pre-detonation. Not only that, but as you should know, hot air molecules expand, cold air molecules compress. Our ultimate goal here is to get as much air as possible in and out of our engine. That's what creates the power, so the colder, the better. Backpressure in a turbo rotary isn't good and you're really limiting your power levels. They do make a T3 rear housing that comes in as big as .84, but the problem is the flange is a lot smaller than a T4 rear housing. That's where you create backpressure with the T3.

Here's a good pic of a comparison between a T4 and T3. Although the a/r looks to be pretty close, notice the size difference of the flanges. The smaller T3 is what creates the backpressure you don't want.

T4 housing on the left T3 housing on the right



What I recommend is a .96-1.0 a/r on a T4 rear housing and a stock ported rotary engine. You'll get good results with the .84 a/r T4 rear housing, but as you start going up in power, you'll notice power levels start to drop off in higher RPMS because of the heated air caused by backpressure (although this size a/r turbine housing would do good on a stock ported 13BT. If you're street ported I'd go with a 1.06 or 1.15 a/r. Bridge ported all the way to p-ported, you should start looking at a T6 rear housing footprint and be prepared to spend a pretty penny on an exhaust manifold to fit it. You can put one of the mentioned turbines on a bridgeport, but remember you're going to start creating more backpressure now.

Okay, so you hear about these terms: Tangenial housing and On-center housing, what are they? It's important to know what these features mean when picking out a turbo. On-center turbine housings are a bit older design and not the best as far as air flow. This is also going to place the turbo closer to the engine so you'll need to check clearance. So what's the difference of tangenial and on-center turbine housings? These terms are used to explain where the turbine flange that connects to the manifold is placed. The tangenial turbine housing has the flange positioned off center. The on-center housing has the flange positioned right in the center of the turbine housing. Below are pics of the the difference between the two housings. You can notice the difference immedietly.

Tangenial housing **Notice the placement of the turbine to manifold flange.


On-center housing


Another term used is Divided or Undivided. The difference in these two turbines is just like it sounds, one has a divider in the center so the air is entering the turbo in two "chambers". The undivided doesn't have this divider. The divided is the idea choice if your looking for maximum power and flow, but an undivided is good too.


Undivided turbo


Undivided manifold (this isn't for a rotary of course)


Divided turbo


Divided manifold (This manifold is the sex and IS for a rotary B) !)




You can use a divided manifold and a non divided turbo with not to much of a downfall, but it'll really cause problems if you use an undivided manifold with a divided turbo. Ideally, I'd like a nice long runner tubular divided manifold with a GT35R turbo and a .96 a/r tangenial divided housing.

Any questions, feel free to post and I'll answer them as best as I can.
 
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