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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
OK. I went out this evening, threw the car in neutral, started it up, and everything seemed fine at first. However, when I went to put the car in reverse and pushed the clutch pedal all the way it, I heard this very pronounced grinding noise. This was the first time I've ever heard anything like it... not to mention the car ran just fine all day yesterday.

Anyway - I'm totally confused as to what is causing it due to how and when it makes the noise. I actually drove the car quite a bit today, but only after figuring out that the grinding only happens during the last inch or two of pedal travel before reaching the floor. Other than that, the clutch engages and disengages just fine, and I have no problem shifting through all the gears. No chatter or noise at idle or in any gear, but only when I fully depress the clutch pedal and get into that last inch or two of travel before it hits the floor.

The other odd thing is that when it does grind, I get what I can only describe as an "electrical surge". All the lights dim, the radio cuts off momentarily, etc. It's almost like whatever is making contact and causing the grinding noise is causing enough friction to slow both the engine and alternator down for a second?

I'm lost... especially since it just popped up out of nowhere overnight with the car parked, and when I simply avoid fully depressing the clutch pedal, the car seems perfectly normal. Any ideas? Maybe the clutch pedal just needs to be adjusted? I considered the TOB, but since there seems to be no problem with the clutch disengaging, I don't know. It almost seems like it's either pulling the pressure plate too far and it's scraping against the bell housing, or maybe even a pressure plate spring gave way?

Throw me some ideas, guys. :2_wink:
 

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no its you tob i had the same problem coming home from work on day. replace it and your good to go. i know it sucks. when was the last time you put a clutch kit in. hope its that time
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
It wasn't that long ago. :2_rolleye

So do you know what exactly is happening with TOB that is causing the noise?
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I did it... and didn't replace it. I knew it was risky (and why I thought it could be the issue), but at the time, it was either use the old one and get the car back on the road (which I needed to do ASAP) or wait another few days for a new one to come in. But hey... it got me by for a while!! LOL

So what exactly is happening? Details?
 

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actually its a brearing that ride the input shaft of the tranny or if you want to look at the end of your crank, the bearings are going out or even locked up. so what you hear is metal on metal, could be just the bearing grinding othere bearings but in worst case its locked up and gringing the end of the crank.
 

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You're not saposed to reuse a tob. You can adjust the clutch pedal to pull less on the tob until you want to tear it down.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
actually its a brearing that ride the input shaft of the tranny or if you want to look at the end of your crank, the bearings are going out or even locked up. so what you hear is metal on metal, could be just the bearing grinding othere bearings but in worst case its locked up and gringing the end of the crank.
Alright... you lost me. While I know what the TOB is and what it does... how exactly would the TOB be grinding the end of the crank?

You're not saposed to reuse a tob. You can adjust the clutch pedal to pull less on the tob until you want to tear it down.
Yeah, yeah. I know. But necessity (and extended lack of a car) will make you do crazy things sometimes. :2_wink:
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
OK. That makes more sense.

And you know... I just realized something else. I changed the oil (swapped to Amsoil) Friday before going out of town, and when I pulled through an Arby's drive-thru Friday night, it sounded like the car was ticking a little. I just stopped and rechecked the oil level again and added another 1/4 quart (as it was ever so slightly low) and never gave it another thought. Maybe it was, in fact, the TOB starting to click?

And furthermore, I never adjusted the clutch pedal after swapping the engine and putting everything back together. I wonder if I didn't have enough free play in the first place, as the clutch always let out close to the top? If so, maybe adjusting it will buy me a little time (not that I don't have another TOB sitting beside me right now).

So on that note - is it possible to swap the TOB without fully dropping the tranny? Can you crack the bell housing and shift it enough to do the swap without dropping the subframe? I could have swaorn I read about someone swapping the entire clutch in this manner at some point...
 

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So on that note - is it possible to swap the TOB without fully dropping the tranny? Can you crack the bell housing and shift it enough to do the swap without dropping the subframe? I could have swaorn I read about someone swapping the entire clutch in this manner at some point...
Yes, I have never dropped my subframe all the way. I only drop is as far as I need to get the transmission far enough over to where I can work on it. Support it with a couple jack stands. I think I loosen the drivers side all the way and the passanger side almost all the way and there is enough room to work. Be very careful removing the tob since the snap ring can get damaged. Also, the tob is self aligning, which I think is one of the reasons why you wouldn't want to reuse it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Well that's good news. It might save me some time and trouble...

But that was one of the other issues. When I originally took out the TOB (as I intended to replace it), I broke off one of the tab ends of the snap ring... and since apparently no one sells the snap ring by itself (without buying a whole new pressure plate), I was forced to reuse it as well. It didn't seem to make any difference in it's integrity, though (since it was just the end), but I'm not sure if it could have in any way contributed to the problem.
 

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Why would you try and replace the tob? They usually last the life of the clutch. I know a lot of noobs say tob is the problem when it isn't. The grinding could be pressure plate related though. The peice that sits in the center of the pressure plate and come loose and could cause grinding. The tob spins so it would grind all the time if it was the tob. Maybe the snapring is the problem. You can put another snap ring in there, but it wouldn't last long. You're best off replacing the clutch and I'm talking from experience.
 

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The tob is always spinning when the car is running and has some pressure on it even when the clutch is engaged.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
OK. Well here's something else...

If I initially start the car with the clutch pedal all the way to the floor, it doesn't grind like it does if I press the pedal in with the car idling. It does, however, emit a slight whine (like the grind, but very minimal). Then as I engage the clutch for the first time very slowly (even in neutral), I can literally hear the whine stop as well as a very slight "click" when I finally pass that first 1-2" of pedal travel from the floor. It's almost like an on/off switch at that certain point. Every time after that... if I try to re-enter that 1-2" range, it grinds (but will still shift into gear regardless).

I'll try to listen and see if the telltale clicking at idle is louder or more noticeable today, and probably try to adjust the pedal this evening to buy myself some time. Thanks for the advice guys!
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Alright. Get this. I hop in the car this morning to go to work and the noise is completely gone. I drove it all day with no sign of anything wrong with it. Weird...

I wonder if maybe the TOB was just being partially pulled out from the snap ring on one side at full disengagement (when there is the most pressure on it) and the bearing getting somewhat cockeyed on the input shaft could have been causing the noise... but it somehow snapped back into place fully and the problem disappeared?
 

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wow.. never never never reuse a TOB.
change it a.s.a.p. i wouldn't reccomend really driving the car until its done.
lesson: never rush when it comes to fixing/modding a car.
/thread
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 · (Edited)
wow.. never never never reuse a TOB.
change it a.s.a.p. i wouldn't reccomend really driving the car until its done.
lesson: never rush when it comes to fixing/modding a car.
/thread
Thanks for the lecture, but I've put over 7k miles on the car in the past 9 months since the I both swapped the entire engine and tore down the tranny to swap out the Quaife differential and tranny internals... all with not so much as a CEL (in spite of apparently breaking the cardinal rule of "never, never, never reusing a TOB"). As such, please spare me the dramatics unless you have some in-depth, first hand information to offer in addition as to how exactly the TOB could cause the noise I previously described in explicit detail (as I found no such specific symptoms mentioned in any other TOB thread on this entire forum).

Thanks for passing through, though. :3_saai:
 
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