Hyundai Tiburon Forums banner

1 - 18 of 18 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
174 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
...and just thought I would share my results. :)

First of, I thought I was going to dyno on a Dynojet - I got it mixed up with Dyno Dynamics, aka "the heartbreaker" due to its very conservative readings (even more so than a Mustang dyno). For you wanting to know more read on, everyone else can skip to the pics at the end :p.

I hoped for 250whp on a dynojet, however now with being on a loaded and very conservative dyno I was not sure at all.....

I went to a Mustang dyno and they said theirs reads low, but you say yours reads low. Is this just some trick used by tuners?
The Dyno Dynamics is known throughout the industry as being the "heartbreaker" dyno - because it breaks the heart of every man that thinks he has 500 hp when he really has 350. The Dyno Dynamics reads lower than the Mustang. It reads WAY lower than a Dynojet. It reads WAY lower than a Dynapack (which actually reads too high on tip-in). The closest in numbers (at low HP) is the mustang, but using the above example, the same 300hp car was dyno'd back to back on a Dyno Dynamics 450 LowBoy (what we have) and a Mustang AWD500E (what some other guys have), and that 300hp rated car consistently read 223 on the Dyno Dynam ics and 249 on the Mustang. One hour apart, exact same car, same town, same altitude, etc.

How do I compare my pulls to Mustang Dyno, or a Dynojet, or a Dynapack?
Every dyno is different. If you want dynojet or mustang-ish #s you have to multiply by 1.18 or so, 1.25+ for DynaPack. But remember, this is just ballpark, as it is not linear.
Anyways, temps was about 22C and quite humid (just when we finsihed we got a thunderstorm). Good thing is my watercooling works fine - intake temps were recorded @25C.:3_winkthu

WHP and boost



215.6PS is about 212HP :). Measured at the wheels of course. Boost is about 5psi until 6k then it spikes to 7-8psi.

AF Ratio+ Boost.



Red=before, Blue=After.....nevermind the Swedish,even if you can read Swedish the dyno-guy couldn't even spell correctly anyways. :p


IMO it is still pig rich, what do you guys think? Converting the numbers to Dynojet-like figures gives about 250whp, which I guess is rather normal for an Alpine stg 2+unichip. In comparison a stock Mitsubishi Evo X dynoed 213.3 HP (pig rich as well) and a Nissan 350Z with I/E dynoed at 210.9HP.

It should put me around 280-290hp at the crank if anyone cares about that - not too bad for an automatic. ;)

Most impressive IMO was the torque, a solid 228lb-ft at the weels at 4500rpm - it never dipped below 207lb-ft (280nm) throughout the rev-range (3.5k-6.5k) and it pulls super hard all the way to redline!! Makes me wish I had another 1000rpm or so :p.

So what do you think, should I lean it out ? I would say that it is very conservative now, and evidently there is adequate fuel supply.....

Lastly - huge thanks to all who helped me out in my other install thread, you guys rock! :3_worship
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,990 Posts
If you wanna tune for just pump gas I think 11.2-11.5:1 is ideal. I am tuned for 11.5:1 on the STi. That a/f graph looks like **** you need to tell him to spend more time on it. Needs to be smooth. And depending on what rpm he started the dyno at (Im assuming he was WOT from 2500rpm and up) you are running way to lean down low. That looks like some newbie tuned it. What are you using to tune?

Also no reason to give excuses for the dyno, it is what it is. Its just numbers. I dynoed 288/310 on a dynodynamics when a guy with the same setup is making 330whp/360ftlbs on a dynojet.

edit: those pump gas numbers are for 93 octane which is like 98RON or some **** lol.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,235 Posts
at 3500 you should be much richer. be glad you didn't pop the engine. i personally would take it back and ask for a retune.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
174 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Hmm, ok - thanks for the input guys....I almost figured it to be "sloppy" (even I can see that it is not a smooth graph :p) but I didn't want to ask leading questions......kinda sucks for me though to have to go back :(. Really don't have time for that right now.

I use 99 octane gas, I know there is a difference in ratings between Europe and America. It is higher grade than the normal (95) grade though.

To be honest I would have wanted a smooth 12:1 graph - perhaps that is too lean? I am a "newbie" when it comes to F/I so I figured I would post here and ask...

I was also asking since my impression was that he was/is kind of a moron and did about 13-14 runs, half assed....I am thinking of getting a different tuner and wideband since that company is the only one to tune the Unichip I have right now.

Something like SMT-6 and a decent wideband probably would be better, then again - I need to know how to tune myself....which I don't. :(

As far as the dyno I know, it is just numbers - I am most concerned about AF ratio....the power output is good enough....I think I'll give 'em a call tomorrow and see what they have to say....then get my own wideband regardless....

Thanks again! :3_winkthu
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,659 Posts
for 5-6 psi or w/e, 12 is fine, maybe a hair rich. If you're not gunning it all the time you could probably get closer to 12.5 for a tad more powah.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
174 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
That a/f graph looks like **** you need to tell him to spend more time on it. Needs to be smooth. .
Haha, funny thing is he is considered to be one of the "gurus" in Sweden....either you hate him or you love him.....Personally, I wanted to kick his ***....not because of the ****** AF curve but because he behaved like a moron (very unprofessional and almost insulting at times) ...good thing I had a friend with me because otherwise I would have freaked out....I was just glad when it was over :p.

So it kinda REALLY sucks that I have to go back there, but I paid them to do a job....so I have to....*sigh*
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
174 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
for 5-6 psi or w/e, 12 is fine, maybe a hair rich. If you're not gunning it all the time you could probably get closer to 12.5 for a tad more powah.
Rather be a bit rich than lean. :)

12:1 across the band was my impression to be a "safe" tune.....that is why I initially didn't like the graph going down into the 11's....then again....the start of that graph is more worrying....unless the company has an explanation for it of course...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,520 Posts
what are your mods?

from the power output it looks like you will be fine with a 12.0 afr (depending on mods), but i would keep it flat all the way to redline, it would give you probably another 5-7whp.


I use the same type of dyno for tuning, they arent the ones you use for bragging rights, but their the best for tuning
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
174 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
what are your mods?

from the power output it looks like you will be fine with a 12.0 afr (depending on mods), but i would keep it flat all the way to redline, it would give you probably another 5-7whp.


I use the same type of dyno for tuning, they arent the ones you use for bragging rights, but their the best for tuning
Mods are I/E (no headers due to emissions), not much more "go fast" mods other than the S/C (stage 2 delivering 5psi boost with peaks of 7-8psi ) and unichip. I am pleased with the power output and how the car responds, I never intended it to be a dynomonster or anything (it is a hyundai after all :p). Just want a fun, fast car that is safe to drive. :)

Regarding the dyno. that is what I thought was great about it as well - everyone said it is the best for tuning.....which is also why I was dissapointed with the A/F and not the numbers. :)

Just to add - I looked at my spark plugs after getting home and I see no evidence of them running lean (from the looks of them I'd say it is running rich. with a black ring aroun the socket).....but I am scared about the poor AF in the beginning, will call them tomorrow to see what they have to say for themselves. I can live with a "poor" tune in regards to the graph not being smooth for now, I will NOT accept a potential dangerous tune though.

If that turns out to be the case, they will have to redo it and I will make sure to ask what the heck they were thinking letting me drive off with such a poor/unsafe tune....I paid good money for it.....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
174 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Another thing, could an explanation for the high AF in the beginning be that he didn't floor it until just after 3.5k (when the AF dips down)? Just trying to prepare to have a "fight" with him tomorrow, naturally he will be on the defensive.... I seem to remeber the 14.7 AF being a "magic" figure, am I wrong?

Should I just ask him to redo it and make it 12:1 throughout the entire band?


Any advice appreciated. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,520 Posts
Another thing, could an explanation for the high AF in the beginning be that he didn't floor it until just after 3.5k (when the AF dips down)? Just trying to prepare to have a "fight" with him tomorrow, naturally he will be on the defensive.... I seem to remeber the 14.7 AF being a "magic" figure, am I wrong?

Should I just ask him to redo it and make it 12:1 throughout the entire band?


Any advice appreciated. :)
i would ignore the parts before 4k, but after 4k it goes up to 12.5 afr, then back down to 12 ... then slowly down to 11. it is tuned rich, you should be tuned to more around 12.5 starting then down to 12 at redline
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,990 Posts
I personally feel 12:1 is getting lean but I suppose this is pretty low boost. I would richen it up to 11.5:1 like I said. You can go leaner but I would monitor it closely. Thats just how I have learned to tune. I am advancing timing throughout the powerband though so that has something to do with running a little richer a/f.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
174 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Ok, so I talked to the guy now. He said what I would guess is the "usual defence", meaning that he "closely monitored my car and tuned as well timing as fuel. If it were in fact lean I would have noticed it (spikes etc)". He said it was pig rich in the beginning and he pulled fuel and adjusted timing, "all of a sudden the car just sat at 14.7 and I left it there since it was running fine".

He said he could retune my car since I am worried about it being lean but all that would accomplish was "using more fuel per km, not more power".

He also said that "I tune my car according to my customers mindset, some want (more) safety other want power".....clearly he is an aZZ-hat and didn't tune (get it, tune haha :p) into my mindset at all. I wanted a safe tune, ACROSS THE BAND, screw the extra HP.

He also said that "the catalytic converter works better at low RPM and since they measure lambda at the end of the exhaust it reads leaner than it really is".

Please note, all of the above comments regarding the tune are HIS comments (direct quotes) not mine. None of them give me a whole lot of confidence in regards to this guys competence. I am a newbie when it comes to tuning F/I but even I can spot an idiot. ;)

I trust the people in here more than this "guru", even more so after this conversation with him.

If Bakerking31 says that I should ignore anything before 4k - then that's what I will do for now. After that it is running rich (considering the low boost) and that is what I wanted (better safe then sorry).

It looks like a wideband+tuner with timing control will be my winter project, I have nothing against the Unichip but the people who tune it. I want to be in control myself, not leave it up to chance or a self-proclaimed guru.

Thanks again guys! :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,235 Posts
Ok, so I talked to the guy now. He said what I would guess is the "usual defence", meaning that he "closely monitored my car and tuned as well timing as fuel. If it were in fact lean I would have noticed it (spikes etc)". He said it was pig rich in the beginning and he pulled fuel and adjusted timing, "all of a sudden the car just sat at 14.7 and I left it there since it was running fine".

He said he could retune my car since I am worried about it being lean but all that would accomplish was "using more fuel per km, not more power".

He also said that "I tune my car according to my customers mindset, some want (more) safety other want power".....clearly he is an aZZ-hat and didn't tune (get it, tune haha :p) into my mindset at all. I wanted a safe tune, ACROSS THE BAND, screw the extra HP.

He also said that "the catalytic converter works better at low RPM and since they measure lambda at the end of the exhaust it reads leaner than it really is".

Please note, all of the above comments regarding the tune are HIS comments (direct quotes) not mine. None of them give me a whole lot of confidence in regards to this guys competence. I am a newbie when it comes to tuning F/I but even I can spot an idiot. ;)

I trust the people in here more than this "guru", even more so after this conversation with him.

If Bakerking31 says that I should ignore anything before 4k - then that's what I will do for now. After that it is running rich (considering the low boost) and that is what I wanted (better safe then sorry).

It looks like a wideband+tuner with timing control will be my winter project, I have nothing against the Unichip but the people who tune it. I want to be in control myself, not leave it up to chance or a self-proclaimed guru.

Thanks again guys! :)
keep us updated on the retune
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
174 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
keep us updated on the retune
Well this thread has totally fallen into oblivion from my side.....anyways here's an update...

Got some new stuff to install...

SFR BBTB with Acceleration pulley



New watercooling pump



It's an impeller type pump (heavy sucker), old one to the right...flows about 35L/min (9.xx gallons)

Huge heat exchanger



This is actually a radiator intended for a Seat Toledo 1.6i, about twice as big as the Alpine cooler..cost me 50USD brand spanking new :3_winkthu

I also relocated the reservoir, to keep everything outside the engine bay - everything to avoid heat soaking (something that is very noticable in a black car)

I would have gone for a bigger reservoir but just couldn't find a good place to fit one without relocating the battery, just didn't have the time to do that so I went with the old Alpine one and changed the fittings to slightly bigger ones. The radiator itself hold more than enough water due to its size, the reservoir is just to make filling and draining a lot easier. :)

This is how it turned out...




Next I will get a wideband (thinking of an AEM UEGO), then a retune before winter hits hard and I have to put the car away....will post a new dyno sheet if I manage to squeeze in a new session before winter :).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,861 Posts
I like the way you think. I'm using a radiator out of a 2.0 vw. How much did that pump cost? My pump flows 12.5gpm and I paid $50 for it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
174 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I like the way you think. I'm using a radiator out of a 2.0 vw. How much did that pump cost? My pump flows 12.5gpm and I paid $50 for it.
Thanks, got my inspiration from you. :3_worship (unlike most people in here I know how to search LOL ;) )

The pump cost me 100USD, couldn't find anything cheaper over here that had a good flow. 9gpm was good and since it is an impeller type it will last a life time (just replace the impeller once a year for like 10USD).

It was a good alternative to NGMs upgrade, which is way too pricey for me - rather spend that money on other stuff. :)
 
1 - 18 of 18 Posts
Top