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Megasquirt/standalone discussion

14K views 63 replies 11 participants last post by  dmdicks  
#1 ·
Well after some thought I decided to take the plunge and purchase a pre-built megasquirt kit (ms1) from KFXperformance after a long debacle with my current SMT-6 and built head.

In order to retain my stock harness I opted for the Stage2+, the MS is built into a stock ECU case and the harness plugs in like normal. After downloading the tuning software from their site I investigated the base N/A tune and it seems pretty decent, nothing magical but it will get the car started so you can use the "learn" feature. It has a built in 3bar MAP, will run dual batch injection for now until I install an expansion board for sequential.

I have been in contact with KFX and they will be adjusting my fuel values for 660cc injectors as opposed to the 190s, I also made mention of my head work and the low vac at idle and they will make corrections for that as well, however the fine tuning is still up to me even after the learn feature is used.


Everyone feel free to discuss issues which may arise when switching to a full standalone system.
 
#2 · (Edited)
I got the MegaSquirt system from them as well. I already have a base tune written for the car because I have 660cc injectors as well. Also, the timing on there base tune needs to backed down a bit, which I did on my tune. I have pictures here that I uploaded, but REMEMBER this is just making the fuel tables adjusted to run bigger injectors and the timing backed enough to make it drivable. Do not worry about changing the "Fuel VE Table" under basic settings because the target A/F ratio that I have linked below will auto correct those settings when the car is warming up (be sure to have the system use a wideband sensor only to determine your a/f ratio for auto tune adjustments).

http://www.tunerconcepts.net/forum/...27-Tuning-my-Turbo-Tiburon-with-MegaSquirt-Standalone-II-System&p=7535#post7535 (Information for the tune is on the first page).

You must take this to a dyno to properly tune it. Also be aware that the ECM will NOT SUPPORT knock sense until you upgrade to a higher version firmware. The current version being used is the only version that is happy with our sensors, so until they fix the issues on the MegaSquirt 3 (which you can upgrade the board CPU and reflash the unit to support the features) you are stuck with doing a knock light or a microphone on the dyno.
 
#3 ·
Thanks I will take a look at your page soon, I arrive back in Canada in Sept for a few weeks so I will do all the install then but hopefully the kinks are worked out before hand.

For KNOCK sense I have a set of 'det cans' which work really well, a DSM friend of mine introduced me to them a while back. Is there any need to install an MSD ignition for timing control or does the MS do a good enough job?
 
#5 ·
Holy ****, i thought they only did older 97-2000 tiburons...... looks like im throwing my FIC in the trashcan......

Anyway, the only issue i would be worried about would be the AC kicking on and off and the motor trying to stall out. I'm not sure if the megasquirt has a compensation for idle and fuel adjustment when the engine goes under a litle more load for ac. the af ratios will change obvioulsy with slightly more load on the engine. Other than that if you can add knock sensor feature in and sequential fuel injection id say go for it. it'll get rid of the junk obd2 ecu we have and allow for an easier tuning experience and better drivability.

A guy i know has it on an old 280z with a turbo setup and he LOVES it. says its the best engine managment he's messed with to date. He said he's tried almost everything (emange, safc, few other misc ones)

Im seriously considering going this route myself. ive just installed my aem fic for the 2nd time now and still trying to get it to run right and im tired of hacking up my harness.... Im about ready to throw it in the trash and jump on the megasquirt bandwagon.
 
#6 ·
They will make compensations for AC and fan control as well...however for me its not an issue because I dont have AC installed.

For the description of 'det cans' try this http://forums.neons.org/viewtopic.php?t=295450&highlight=det , you look pretty goofy wearing them while driving but you can hear individual cylinder events which is very nice.
 
#7 ·
I came across a DIY on a specific version of knock cans. I posted it here with full credit to the source:

http://www.tunerconcepts.net/forum/showthread.php?832-DIY-Audio-Knock-Kit&p=7555#post7555

Personally, I like this method better, and also I have used that item (demo purposes when selling it at my work) and it works well. Reminds me of the old fashion method of putting your ear on a screw driver and pressing it to the cylinder head to listen to your valve train.
 
#11 ·
ROFL....

Without the ability to sense and adjust for knock you WILL need to tune on a loaded dyno and spend hours and hours getting things safe especially with boost. My suggested would be tune at 500 rpm at a time and go through each load cell. WOT tuning is cake compared to tuning for all the various low throttle boosted conditions.
Imagine going up a long hill and you get the picture. Typically your not WOT going up a hill so you will be in low throttle cells but have boost as well. Too high of ignition timing and EGTs WILL melt your engine unless tuned properly. Oh, and I would not trust the auto tune feature until you at least get the tune close on a dyno. From that point the auto tune can fill in the blanks.
A Full Standalone ECU is not something to be taken lightly and a basemap is just that. A map that will start and drive the car, nothing more. Its meant to get the car to the dyno, that's it!!
 
#20 ·
Hi!

I m using it more than 3 years now, i was forced to find some solution b/c the pump gas
in my country SUX big time, so detonation was my friend :3_wink:
It is a little bit pricey but it does the job very well and i m happy with the safeguard as i can
not retarded my ignition in my smt6 software ( i m only taping my cps).

It is a good solution and i hope that you can use it together with your MS.
:3_shiny:
 
#16 ·
Well according to MegaSquirt, I found out that the hardware that has been supplied to us DOES support the use of knock (there is a DIY on how to add it on BOTH MS1 and MS2). I'm curious why the KFX guy said it will not work with the firmware version as the compatibility with most cars have increased on the later versions in terms of sensor support with most vehicles. Im wondering what version they are using?
 
#18 ·
I don't know about the Tiburon or if it would be different, but my Dad has a megasquirted 73 Opel GT (MS2) and I know it has knock support.
 
#19 ·
You do not need an expansion board to add knock support. There's a seperate section on the breadboard for adding the ability. Simple resistor and wire connection, and just update the firmware.

A lot of people arent aware of how simple MegaSquirt is, you can even go ahead and upgrade yours to MegaSquirt 2 if you wish by simply pulling the processor, and installing the MegaSquirt 2 core, then upgrade your firmware... no expansion needed. The expansion board your mentioning is called a daughter board, which has a different purpose which is not needed for our application.
 
#22 · (Edited)
Why would you add a separate knock system if you just need to add a simple resistor and diode to the "proto area" of your MegaSquirt system? Your board fully supports it (yes MegaSquirt 1 and 2 both have the ability) and will read your OEM knock sensor (requiring a simple calibration). I have a full DIY on it, and I already helped my friend on his MR2 Turbo install it with his MegaSquirt and it works 100% (only took 15 minutes to install it).

All you need to do is the following:

On the proto area of your your board (which is the expansion board allowing you to add additional abilities (ie knock sense, water control for meth, N20 ability etc).

(Note proto area on the bottom left of the board)

Image


Image


1.) Add a 1k Ohm resistor (1 / 4 or 1 / 8) watt which will be soldered to a wire which connects to the JS4 socket.

2.) Do the same on another area on the proto area (with a resistor), however this one go's to the SPR3 circuit.

Then, locate a simple GM knock sensor module, which will be added inline to the existing knock sensor:

Image


Once this is said and done, you can do the following:

Knock Control:

Disabled: do not use knock feedback for ignition advance control.

Safe Mode: use knock retard, but keep the advance below that which caused knock. This backs the advance 1 small step back and leaves it at that until TPS or MAP changes - or knock comes back. This is "safe mode" scheme is the safest thing for a DIY set-up.

Aggressive Mode: use knock retard, but keep advance at threshold of knock occurring. That is, the program advances (up to the timing table value) if it doesn't see knock, and retards if does see knock. The difference from safe mode is that the timing can be advance all the way to the table value after knock, not just up to one step below knock. This may result in the knock returning, in which case the timing is retarded again, then advanced slowly, and so on.

Threshold Direction: This sets whether MegaSquirt® recognizes a voltage above the threshold (see next item) or below the threshold is considered knock.

Threshold (V): The is the voltage from the knock sensor module which defines whether there is knock occurring or not. Note that you can define a 6-element table of rpm versus voltage instead of a single value. You define this table under 'Settings/Knock Threshold'. The GM sensor/module signal is ON/OFF, but the knock threshold value/table is there in case someone has a system they can calibrate to their car by a threshold.

Peak (V): the maximum expected voltage value on the knock signal, used in some configurations where the difference between the signal level and the maximum levels indicates the degree of knocking.

Knock Count (knocks): number knock detects required for valid detection

No Knock Above MAP (kPa): no knock retard is implemented above this MAP

No Knock Below RPM (rpm): no knock retard is implemented below this rpm

No Knock Above RPM (rpm): no knock retard is implemented above this rpm, which may be desirable if valve train noise triggers the knock sensor when knock isn't actually occurring.

Maximum Retard (deg): maximum total retard when knock occurs. This can be useful to prevent timing from being excessively retarded (avoiding potential overheating issues) if the senor malfunctions or there are other problems with the knock sensing system.

Retard Check Time (sec): this is the time between knock retard corrections, allows short time step to quickly retard

Retard Step Size (deg): ignition retard step size when 1st knock or after stopped, make it large to quickly retard the timing and stop knock

Advance Check Time (sec): this is the time between knock advance correction (I.e., timing return to 'normal')

Advance Step Size (deg): ignition advance steps after knock has stopped

Recovery Advance (deg)): this is the change in table advance required to restart advance until knock or reach table value (0 knock retard) process. This only applies in 'Safe Mode'

For more information, visit this link: http://www.megamanual.com/ms2/knock.htm

Note: This article was written before support was written for the MegaSquirt 1 board, but is used on many models, so ignore the area stating that it was tested only on the bench (ive even scene it used as well).

I don't see a purpose to spending more than what you have to because your system already has it. It will also be easier to tune your car, because you'll have an active knock gauge on your tuning software, which you can specify how much timing to pull when knock is sensed (also if you're using your megasquirt as a boost controller, you can pull boost away by a specified amount on top of pulling timing).
 
#25 · (Edited)
My MS has taken a much longer time than advertised on the KFX site however after many emails Bill has replied to me and confirmed that they were waiting on a piece from their supplier and that it should ship within a few days. I was not happy with the lack of customer service but im not in a huge rush because im stuck over here for another 3 weeks.

I ordered the MS2 daughter board and sequential injection upgrade from DIYautotune as a possible upgrade, also I got my hands on a Knocksense kit from a friend of mine who ordered two back in the day but never used either...his gen 2 neon makes 398whp from 20psi on a T04s, pump gas and street tune, however he did a lot of driving around in the funny det cans lol.

Anyhow thats my update for this little item, I hope to hear more from Dvanderk since hes already done this...and on that note I hope he reads this, but did you have to send your Pauter rods away to be machined to fit the stock crank? dmdicks mentioned that he had to do it and since I already purchased mine I was just wondering if maybe Pauter had made corrections for them...

Just FYI Afghanistan sucks!
 
#27 ·
I know that my rods are stamped Tiburon 2.0, and when I ordered they asked me for the engine code G4GF which I gave them.

I hope that he has received his MS since he has plenty of install info as well as tuning done on it already, im not a big fan or run around and being where I am just makes me angrier when it happens.
 
#29 · (Edited)
Today was officially 8 weeks since my order was paid for with KFX, I have sent Bill an fairly to the point message asking to have a tracking number or full refund by the end of this week...the troubling part about that is I paid with Paypal and after 45 days your dispute is no longer considered, so I could be screwed either way. I also sent a message to Johny Reed who deals with Orders/Technical Support at KFX, asking for verification on the status of my order...

Hopefully I am not out $800 cause I might just choke the life out of Bill if I ever meet him.

On that note I may have to look of other fuel control methods, I would be happy to build my own MS if I get a refund from KFX, if not I may purchase a TF10 and get on with life, but im not sure how that will help my stalling issues.