You need to get a big break kit ..........problem solve.

 

racing car eh...

looks like a s/c or turbo is in your near future

i would be pissed being passed by everyone lol

 

He's got alot of HP for a N/A tib. I haven't yet seen it personally but I bet it hauls balls

 

Yeah, I think a big brake kit would definitely help, but I think the bigger problem was just not having an aggressive enough pad. Between my tires and brakes, I definitely didn't push the car even close to the limits.

Once you get out on the track, it's really a bit counter intuitive. For example, when your car starts pushing off the track (due to understeer), your first thought would be to lift off the throttle and maybe tap the brakes. Well in doing that, you shift the weight off the rear of the car back onto the front tires. And if you had already compensated a bit with the steering prior to that, as soon as the weight shifts back onto the front wheels, you get instant overcorrection. Add to it that by braking, you shifted the weight off the rear, and the car is almost bound to spin. Instead what you are supposed to do is just let up a little on the throttle, but still accelerate through the corner.

I will definitely be going out for another track day soon hopefully. Here is the track I was racing on yesterday:

East Test Track - 1.25 Mile Road Course with 10 turns, a 1/2 mile straight-away and 2/10th of a mile barrier pit lane makes it the perfect test track for Formula and Indy Cars. Also used by the Bondurant School for their advanced students and by Ride & Drive promotional companies

Believe it or not, turn 4 looks pretty easy, but was by far the hardest turn out there. You really had to hang it out on the outside of the corner, and then resist the urge to dive in too early and late apex the turn. On top of that coming out of 4 there is a large concrete wall on the straightaway between 4 and 5.

 

Malogus have you ever thought of just going with the XG350 calipers ? It's not as good as BBK but it's a whole lot cheaper and I'm sure it would help alot having two piston front calipers.

 

True you add a second piston, but the pad surface area is the same, or bit smaller I believe. Doesn't seem like a good upgrade.

 

Excellent thread......I love reading about what ours can (and cannot) handle in the environment of a track as I have wanted to do this for a long time. Unfortunately as I read this.....I'm getting a little depressed at how limited our cars actually are when it comes to real world racing.

 

I don't know if it's necessarily limited. I remember back to the article back in the day where they put the Key Motorsports tib against the boxter and z06, and it was able to keep up pretty well. I thought my car was pretty well set-up, but obviously the tib needs some sticky tires and very aggresive brakes. I think thats mainly due to it being so heavy.

I think my next few mods will be trying to drop some weight. Maybe take out the A/C, custome sunroof panel, maybe a few other things as well. Unfortunately, that weight needs to be removed from the front, to keep it somewhat decently balanced. I think a fiberglass hatch would just kill the weight distribution for a road racer.

 

What are your opinions on a true BBK such as Wilwood, Rotora, Brembo, etc........I would think a 4 or 6 piston set up would make a pretty significant difference assuming the pads are upgraded accordingly.

 

Interesting too that you also have no front strut bar and a rear strut bar with sway bar in an attempt to offset the understeer, correct? There's nothing that can totally eliminate it due to the weight of the car? I'm guessing the front end wants to push pretty hard in the corners, especially since we have FWD.

 

Yeah I have done alot to try and stiffen up the rear and eliminate as much of the understeer as I could. My choice for no front strut bar really has nothing to do with handling, but the fact that I have my MSD ignition mounted on the firewall, and also a Stage4 manifold. There is no place for the strut bar to go.
I had my car set up as follows yesterday to help reduce the push:
- Front tire pressure about 3-4 pounds higher.
- Added about 1 degree of extra negative camber.
- Set the rear sway bar as stiff as possible.
- Shocks set close to max stiffness (I probably should have set the front softer to help with understeer, but oh well)

I'm sure as I become a better driver it will become less of an issue, but yesterday being my first time, there is alot of stuff I still need to work on. Mainly braking zones, smoothness of steering, transfer of weight, and heel-toe shifting. It seems easy in video games, but when you are actually out on the track diving into a hairpin turn at 85mph at the end of a session on fading brakes, there is a lot of stuff you have to think about.

 

3) Despite anything you do, the tib has alot of understeer.

Ah ha! knew it - i nearly understeer'd my car into another one recently it really scared me.

 

Personally I have the XG 2-piston calipers with uneek slotted and drilled rotors and a basic semi-metallic pad that uneek provided me.

As it is my wheels threaten to lock up in upwards of 60 mph while doing heavy braking, and never once have my brakes overheated, even after heavy braking from 120 + mph to a near stop.

Despite those who are skeptical about the set-up, I must admit that the improvements took me by surprise, and might work well for your purposes.

The disadvantages to a bbk will be the increase in unsprung weight over a larger diameter rotor, they will put you in the hole by $1200 +, and you might find that your wheels will just lock up instead of giving you greater braking power than the XG caliper setup.

I realize there will be few people who agree with me, but there are also only a handfull of people who have even tried the XG caliper anyways. Being one of the few, I feel the setup has the ability to nearly reach the full braking capabilities of such a front weighted car.

 

Not to be an ***, but pretty much every thing you said is wrong, or is not seeing the whole picture.

1) On the street, my Hawk HPS pads with slotted rotors do perfect. From 60-0, probably 120-0 if I ever drove that fast. However the steet is not a race track. Those semi-metallics that Uneek sells would be eaten alive in about 5 laps. So yes, you're brakes have never overheated, but you have truly not completely tested them to the point you would expect them to overheat. Try braking from 80-40 at probably 75-80% pedal pressure, for 11 turns a lap, for about 15 laps straight.

2) You have no understanding of BBKs. Yes they cost $1200 or so, but they don't necessaily increase unsprung weight. In most cases the rotors are two-piece designs, which reduce the weight of the rotors, despite being bigger. If you are braking right (or have ABS), you shouldn't be locking them up either.

I really did debate going to the XG350 rotors, but after hearing on of the local guys and his experience (which no offense, is a lot more credible than some guy with 11 posts), I decided against it. He didn't feel any huge change in braking after the install, and said he wouldn't do it again given the chance. With the XG swap, you truly are increasing unsprung weight, and while upgrading to a 2 piston caliper, you don't get any change to the pad surface area.

If anything, I will be upgrading to EBC Blue stuff pads if they have them in our application. Brake stability up to 1000 degrees and higher.

 

hmmm definately some good insight because i don't want my car to become a drag car i want to Road Race and definately my next mods are toward some suspension work, brakes and the Koyo radiator because i honestly don't think the stock cooling system could handle it for the track i'm going out to i'm going to my first autox this sunday so wish me luck! then i'm going to Hallet in at the end of may!

 

Hmm, 2 different size XG rotors would definitely explain it. I guess my question is how easy it would be to get race pads for the XG calipers. I know that Hawk makes Blues and HT-10's (both aggressive track pads) for the tib, but not sure about the XG.

A few more pics from www.nboundz.com

 

Hmm, 2 different size XG rotors would definitely explain it. I guess my question is how easy it would be to get race pads for the XG calipers. I know that Hawk makes Blues and HT-10's (both aggressive track pads) for the tib, but not sure about the XG.

A few more pics from www.nboundz.com

You're right, but I haven't looked into it yet. It'll probably be a bunch of screwing around, like half of the other mods on my car were LOL.

 

that Viper looks HOT!!!!

 

Yeah, he races it in the Speed GT class:

http://www.world-challenge.com/drivers/bio.php?class=GT&ID=Ritch Marziale

 

camber angle FTW!

lower it as much as possible if you can... and i guess the rear a bit softer than the front. The negative angle + softer setting might take away a bit of the under steer.

Or maybe i dont know what im saying lol

 

Yeah, I added a bit of negative camber in the front, which will help with the understeer. As far as the softer setting in the rear, you actualy want to make it harder. Stiffening up the suspension in the rear (through sway-bar, strut bar, stiffer springs/shocks) will get you less understeer in corners. Unfortunately it also makes the car a bit loose when the weight transfers off the rear tires, which leads to the tendency to spin.

One thing I learned is when you are a beginner, try not to adjust the car to your driving, but adjust your driving to the car.

 

so stiffen up rear susp. then?

what about negative angle on the rear? most FWD track cars down here have alot of negative back there

 

http://www.newtiburon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81685

 

Has anyone ever tested stock brakes against XG caliper conversion against a BBK? I am interested in knowing how significantly different each one is.