7.5 psi is not necessarily better then 5 psi just to let you know, so that's not something to be excited about. And do you have a sound clip?

 

No, I just got it on there about 30 minutes ago. I know it is pulling harder, I can feel it. I have no doubt I am making more power, be it torque or hp the car feels much better now. Like I said if the dyno shows it is not all I have to do is take it out, it is not hard to do.

I know from what I have seen on here, stage 0, stage 1 and stage 1.5 alpine tibs make more power without headers. The performance shop told me it has been his experience that roots superchargers like a little backpressure.

The exhaust sounds exactly the same, it just quieted down the drone insie the cabin.

 

That's cool. I'm surprised we haven't run into these before.

 

No, I just got it on there about 30 minutes ago. I know it is pulling harder, I can feel it. I have no doubt I am making more power, be it torque or hp the car feels much better now. Like I said if the dyno shows it is not all I have to do is take it out, it is not hard to do.

I know from what I have seen on here, stage 0, stage 1 and stage 1.5 alpine tibs make more power without headers. The performance shop told me it has been his experience that roots superchargers like a little backpressure.

The exhaust sounds exactly the same, it just quieted down the drone insie the cabin.

You are NOT making more power. You may have gained a little torque but you lost horsepower.

Alpine stage anything make more power WITH headers. I have no idea where you got that from. Yes you will lose some feeling in your butt dyno but you are definitly gaining horsepower with headers, no question. Don't say you know something if it is not correct.

 

What makes you think what you know is correct? No need to get so defensive, I am just stating what I have observed with my car & what a mechanic told me that works with superchargers and turbo's every day. I have been suspecting this to be true for quite some time. You do not have to believe it, I am just putting this out there for discussion.

I guess my dyno will be the proof. The owner of the speed shop that builds cars said the same thing, the roots blower should have a little backpressure to be more efficient. He said too much is bad but so is too little.

My car pulls harder from 60mph up and it pulls harder from 0mph up.

Here is an example of a stage 1.5 like I have making more whp and more torque than I am and he does not have headers:

http://www.newtiburon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40648&highlight=2.75%22+pulley

That is a hell of a good dyno for just a 2.75" pulley and no headers. He is making just 3whp less than Dingleweed when he had the lower 6.5" pulley and headers and he is making damn near the same torque. He has a lot less mods but yet makes almost the same hp and torque. I truly believe that the headers are what is causing the loss of power for Dingleweed there. If he would had a little bit of restriction in his exhaust his hp and torque would go up on that dyno.

It is also proof my setup is not as restrictive as no headers and aftermarket exhaust. He has 9psi and I am running right at 7psi (creeping to 7.5 if I keep on it).

All I am saying is my car feels significantly better than it did yesterday.

 

here are the dynos:

Cypher's dyno NO HEADERS and only a 2.75" pulley:

Dingleweeds dyno with Headers and 6.5" lower pulley:

Now think about it, it looks like that added backpressure is helping, he has less mods but almost the exact same power as a car with a lower pulley.

 

here are the dynos:

Cypher's dyno NO HEADERS and only a 2.75" pulley:

Dingleweeds dyno with Headers and 6.5" lower pulley:

Now think about it, it looks like that added backpressure is helping, he has less mods but almost the exact same power as a car with a lower pulley.

Now Myst doesnt have anything smart to say back. I think you might be right Photo. I cant wait to see your dynos. Nice observation on your part. Screw those others who think they know everything!

 

There are several other dyno's on here that prove the same thing, all you have to do is search.

On a celica forum they have proven that headers are not a good mod for their cars either. They lose power with them. Yes I know that most cars see very good gains with headers but in some situations they do not.If I lost hp then why is my bottom AND top end pulling better? It is not pulling just a tiny bit better it is pulling much better.

 

you should go to the dyno and see if you gained power, go to te dyno before you install the heat exchanger. also where do you put these things in at???? and where do you buy em?

 

Unfortunately the dyno is 2 1/2 hours away. It says to place them right after the headers but another guy placed his after the resonator. I placed mine right after the cat.

I am not saying I am right here but my butt dyno tells me that I am and the posted dyno's here do too. I would be afraid to go past the upper pulley though without headers. Since I still flow better than a car with headers I should be fine.

I will post my dyno with my numbers before the intercooler and after the intercooler and insert. If the insert hurt me I should only gain 2-3 whp and have spots on my dyno where I am actually lower than before.

I am far from being a car expert in any way, this is simply my opinion and what my perception is on this. There are people on this site that know a hell of a lot more than me. Who knows though, maybe I stumbled onto something here.

 

Are you freaking kidding me?? You KNOW that you can not compare two different cars with different mods. The only way to make an accurate comparison is same car with and without headers. And I KNOW you are wrong, that's how I can say it.

All I am saying is my car feels significantly better than it did yesterday.

This is the basis for your whole argument. I am TELLING you that you did NOT gain horsepower. Now YOU think about it. How does a restriction in your exhaust flow GAIN horsepower?? And I am not being defensive, I know what I am talking about and you are trying to argue it, just take a minute and think about it.

There are several other dyno's on here that prove the same thing, all you have to do is search.

On a celica forum they have proven that headers are not a good mod for their cars either. They lose power with them. Yes I know that most cars see very good gains with headers but in some situations they do not.If I lost hp then why is my bottom AND top end pulling better? It is not pulling just a tiny bit better it is pulling much better.

I already said that if you would read what I am posting. You MAY have gained torque, but you lost power. Backpressure is giving you that instant feeling that makes it feel it is faster, but go to a track with it in and with it out and you will see that you are actually slower.

Now Myst doesnt have anything smart to say back. I think you might be right Photo. I cant wait to see your dynos. Nice observation on your part. Screw those others who think they know everything!

Dude, who are you? Go back to the newbie forum. And maybe Myst wasn't online to say anything smart back, ever think of that possibility? Yeah, screw the others that THINK they know everything.

 

Lol, calm down and have a cookie. You can compare 2 cars of similar make with similar mods. No they will not be exactly alike but they will not be miles different unless something is wrong with one. How many people on here gain almost the same whp with an exhaust or with an intake or with a supercharger? They are all very close.

Are you freaking kidding me?? You KNOW that you can not compare two different cars with different mods. The only way to make an accurate comparison is same car with and without headers. And I KNOW you are wrong, that's how I can say it.




This is the basis for your whole argument. I am TELLING you that you did NOT gain horsepower. Now YOU think about it. How does a restriction in your exhaust flow GAIN horsepower?? And I am not being defensive, I know what I am talking about and you are trying to argue it, just take a minute and think about it.



I already said that if you would read what I am posting. You MAY have gained torque, but you lost power. Backpressure is giving you that instant feeling that makes it feel it is faster, but go to a track with it in and with it out and you will see that you are actually slower.



Dude, who are you? Go back to the newbie forum. And maybe Myst wasn't online to say anything smart back, ever think of that possibility? Yeah, screw the others that THINK they know everything.

 

I am buying a 2 disk setup as well. I was thinking of doing something with my headers for a long time and am glad to see that Photoman had good results.

 

Like I said, when I get my dyno they can place my 237whp "pre-insert" dyno with my new dyno and we will see if I lost power anywhere in the rpm range. I am not saying that I did or did not, only the dyno will show that. Myst, are you saying that if the dyno shows that the insert did not hurt me that I will still be slower at the track? If so how is that possible?

 

Like I said, when I get my dyno they can place my 237whp "pre-insert" dyno with my new dyno and we will see if I lost power anywhere in the rpm range. I am not saying that I did or did not, only the dyno will show that. Myst, are you saying that if the dyno shows that the insert did not hurt me that I will still be slower at the track? If so how is that possible?

But it WILL show that the insert hurt you. And if it didn't then the conditions were different because anything that restricts the air flow and makes it unbalanced will cause you to lose horsepower, this is basically a silencer just not at the tip of the exhaust which should actually make you lose even more power then a regular silencer.

 

Ahh, patience. Why not wait for the dyno and save hurt feelings?

 

My feelings are not hurt at all, lol. I promise I will post the dyno regardless if I am right or if Myst is right. Hell it is an experiment, I was curious so I wanted to try it.

I bought it at summitracing.com just copy the part number for the 2.25 2 disk insert and paste it on the summit site and click search.

 

Well if I am wrong my feeling will be hurt. I would buy it but you said it doesn't make it any quieter, just less resonance. Well I barely get any resonance with my silencers in so it's not worth it. If it made the exhaust quiet I would get it.

 

Well if I am wrong my feeling will be hurt. I would buy it but you said it doesn't make it any quieter, just less resonance. Well I barely get any resonance with my silencers in so it's not worth it. If it made the exhaust quiet I would get it.

It did quiet it just a little, just not a huge amount. I just have the 2 disk, another guy got the 3 disk and he said it is very quiet in the cabin but it still has a nice rumble outside. It definately made a huge difference on the cabin noise with the 2 disk. I made you a short vid so you can hear it, I will post it later. All you can hear now when I drive by is the supercharger.

 

Here is a quick vid, my gf did not start the camera on time so you miss me spinning through 1st gear, that is why when I hit 2nd gear I am not up to speed and the rpms are so low. When it goes to the interior vid I had the windows rolled up, that is why it is so quiet.

http://media.putfile.com/75l

 

that sounds so sexy

 

Dang thats awsome. I can't hear my S/C from that back at all. You can on yours. Sweettt. You exhuast isn't loud at all. Do you have a cat on yours? I just did my dyno and i am making 210whp with stage 0. I have headers and a hi-flow cat.

 

Dang thats awsome. I can't hear my S/C from that back at all. You can on yours. Sweettt. You exhuast isn't loud at all. Do you have a cat on yours? I just did my dyno and i am making 210whp with stage 0. I have headers and a hi-flow cat.

yeah I have ssa headers and a high flow cat. The supercharger is pretty loud with the upper pulley and I have the insert that quiets down my exhaust a little.

 

I myself have done a lot of experimenting with the supposed "header vs boost" situation.. Logic tells us, that even though the headers make more power on a normally aspirated engine, they may not on a supercharged one.

Relieving backpressure on a normally aspirated engine allows more air to be consumed and used during a normal combustion cycle. On a supercharged vehicle, the engine no longer becomes a "pump" and is now becomes a chamber for the s/c to pump in to. Volumetric efficiency is changed with an s/c. Even though you can change the path and speed at which the engine is compressed, you can hardly change the amount of air the s/c is capable of flowing.

When you install headers, the backpressure that is relieved causes air that would normally be compressed by the combustion chamber, to escape and go out the tailpipe. That is the direct result of the exhaust valve timing. That valve timing, is made for a normally aspirated engine with stock manifolds. Now with the s/c and a stock manifold, it builds cylinder pressure against those restrictions. And no matter what anyone says, the amount of pressure in the cylinder when the engine fires, is what determines the power the engine makes. PERIOD.

These superchargers are capable out flowing the exhaust systems on our cars. And anyone willing to lay out the money will find on a flow bench, that to be true. On a supercharged engine, the exhaust system becomes secondary to performance, and normal gains associated with a free flowing exhaust system, may hamper performance of a supercharged engine, because now gas rich air is flowing out of the cylinder rather than being compressed by the cylinder.

On a normally aspirated engine, power is increased by allowing more air to flow in, and to get out of the engine quicker.

On a supercharged engine, the supercharger decides the flow in to the engine, and by allowing GAS rich air to escape down the exhaust because of valve timing, will cost you horsepower.

Deciding what amount of backpressure is needed to maximize your particular engine set-up will take many hours on a dyno. But Photoman is correct... Superchargers do need some backpressure in order to make power, because boost in the exhaust system, doesn't make any horsepower.

 

Hello,

I am going to make this short and sweet. If you are trying to make more power by backing up the exhaust flow on a forced induction engine, you are essentially going to hurt parts. Take a hair dryer and put it on high with high heat. Put your hand about 6 inches away from the outlet where it blows and feel the heat. Then, put your hand 1 inch away from the discharge and tell me it isnt hotter. When you restrict the exhaust flow to make more backpressure, to make more power, this isnt good. The only reason you will see a power increase is because of the rise in boost.

The problem is, more boost equals more heat. More heat at the exhaust port equals possible burnt exhaust valves and more heat in the combustion chamber, which equals more prone to detonation.

With the addidtion of headers and pully upgrade to make that same 7.5 lbs of boost will equal more horsepower, more torque, no burnt exhaust valves and cooler exhaust temps. This ia a WIN, WIN situation.

People that tell you that roots style superchargers like back pressure arent very educated about them.

Thanks T.C.